Wisdom Rising

Awakening the Medicine Wheel and Shamanic Healing with Kim Doney Boyle

• Christine Renee, Isabel Wells, and Shantel Ochoa • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Join us as we welcome Kim Doney Boyle, a registered member of the Little Shell Band of Chippewa Cree in Montana, who shares her transformative journey from grief and tragedy to healing and engaging with Spirit through Shamanism. In this episode, Kim offers profound insights into the medicine wheel and the significance of the seven directions, emphasizing the interconnectedness of body, mind, soul, and spirit. Her personal stories reveal how emotional and mental struggles can manifest as physical illness and the importance of addressing these issues with love and healing.

Kim takes us deeper into the world of Shamanism, unveiling the continuous learning process that comes with receiving guidance from spirit helpers and balancing everyday activities with a constant spiritual connection. Discover the role of Spirit Guides and ancestors in her path, the powerful sacred ceremonies in her practices, and the essential nature of gratitude and humility in maintaining these spiritual bonds. She also clarifies the distinction between soul and spirit and reflects on the necessity of overcoming personal challenges to fully step into the role of a medicine person.

Prepare to be inspired as Kim recounts her mystical encounters with the Sasquatch people, or Sabe, interdimensional beings with telepathic abilities. Experience the magic through her stories of mysterious events like the unexplained movement of a large rose quartz and the appearance of a marble. Finally, Kim shares her journey into creating shamanic art and tools, emphasizing the importance of personal connections and the spiritual guidance that infuses her creations. Tune in to learn how you can connect with Kim for custom Shamanic items and embrace the transformative potential of Shamanic practice in your own life.

Connect with Kim: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005494714397

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
Website: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/moonrisinginstitute
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moonrisingmystics
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moonrising.institute
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@moonrisinginstitute

Book a session with Isabel: https://calendly.com/into-the-deep/schedule

Book a FREE 15 minute connect call with Izzy: https://calendly.com/moonrisinginstitute/connect

Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

Speaker 1:

It's time to remember your divine purpose and limitless potential. Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the official podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine Rene, isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoa as we guide you on a journey of radical self-discovery and spiritual guidance. Each week, we'll dance through the realms of shamanism, mysticism, energy, healing and personal development to illuminate your path to true healing and self-sourced wisdom Through weekly inspired conversations and interviews with leading spiritual and shamanic practitioners. We are here to help you acknowledge, reconcile and balance your energy so that you can awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome back to another episode of the Wisdom Rising podcast. I'm your host for today, isabel Wells, and I am so excited to be bringing you guys the first interview episode that we're going to have here on Wisdom Rising. I am honored to be speaking with Kim Doney Boyle, who I met last year at a drum making ceremony in Montana with our visionary Christine Renee, and since then our paths have crossed a few times, and I consider every time I interact with her to be an honor and a really magical, special experience, and so I'm very excited to be able to share her voice today on the show as a registered member of the Little Shell Band of Chippewa Cree in Montana, kim brings a really unique perspective to her shamanic practice, and so in today's episode you're going to hear us talk about a range of experiences and ideas around shamanism.

Speaker 1:

We'll start with a discussion on grief and past lives. Kim will share how her own personal life experience and tragedies opened the way for her to begin her spiritual journey, how she transitioned from general spiritual seeking into shamanism or what she calls medicine work. We'll talk about her work as a medicine woman and dive into things like the medicine wheel and the four directions, or the seven directions, as you'll hear her explain. We talk about the difference between soul and spirit and the four directions, or the seven directions, as you'll hear her explain. We talk about the difference between soul and spirit and the different attributes that the medicine wheel brings forward, so that we can understand that we have the universe within ourselves and that all of our systems mind, body, soul, spirit, emotions are all interconnected and interdependent. We touch on things like autoimmune disease, grief and even suicide.

Speaker 1:

So note that there is a bit of a trigger warning in today's episode. So if those are topics that you are sensitive about, just be aware as we step into today's show. This is truly one of my favorite interviews that I've had the pleasure of recording, and so much insight and wisdom comes through. The big takeaway from today is knowing that when we open to spirit and connect with our spirit guides, magic can happen. So you'll hear Kim share some of her own magical stories and experiences from working with her spirit team, and I also share one of my own Along the way. Again, we'll talk about awakening the medicine wheel within and give you some helpful tips and ideas for where to start if you're looking to start on your shamanic practice. Here's a sneak peek at what you'll hear in today's episode.

Speaker 2:

So all of those things are in this circle creates the entire universe and beyond the cosmos. All of it is encompassed in this medicine wheel. Everything that is in creation is in this medicine wheel.

Speaker 1:

If you're interested in connecting with Kim and her work further, the link to her Facebook page is in the show notes. In addition, if you're interested in joining us for our shamanic course, where we help you understand and awaken to the wisdom within, as you'll hear us talk about, and allow you to begin the process of your spiritual journey and open you up to living a spiritual life while connecting with your guides and your spirit team in a really tangible way, know that we are currently open for early bird enrollment. So if you want to learn more about our soul rising shamanic Reiki course, you can head over to moonrisinginstitutecom. Slash soul dash rising. You can also go to our website and find that in the navigation menu or click the link in the show notes for more information. Again, we're in early bird pricing. So if you're feeling the call to join us, go ahead and check it out and if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us directly so we can see if this is your next best step. And now, without further ado. I am so honored and excited to introduce you to today's episode. Let's dive in.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to another episode of the Wisdom Rising podcast. I am so delighted and honored to be joined with Kim Doni Boyle, or Eagle Woman, a registered member of the Little Shell Band of the Chippewa Cree of Montana and truly one of my most inspired and aligned mentors and teachers that I've had the honor of working with. I met Kim last year I believe it was in September at a drum making circle and again this year at one of her shamanic Reiki retreat weekends, and there's not a time that I've interacted with you that I haven't walked away with some amazing tidbit of wisdom or insight or divine energy. So I am so grateful for you as a presence here on this earth and, of course, today, grateful for you as a presence here on this earth and, of course, today as a presence here on our podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, I'm honored to be here and honored to be able to connect with you again. I think about you often, your very powerful presence, and so I am also very grateful to have met you.

Speaker 1:

That's beautiful. Thank you, and I truly am just so excited to be able to share your voice today on the podcast. One of the things that we're really striving to do with this podcast is really showcase all the different perspectives around shamanic practice, and I think you have a lot of really beautiful and unique insights, as well as a really amazing background in all of this. So I would love to just start today's conversation by asking you how did you get to where you are today? I know that's a big question, but yeah, Like wow, we're going way back.

Speaker 2:

I've always had an interest in my native culture. Um. So when I was younger, you know, I wanted, I wanted to learn more and I I pursued that. Um, but I had a lot of tragedy in my life and so that kind of put me on a whole different road. Um, I had lost a three month old baby that smothered in bed with me and my husband, and after that, um and I was young, I was only 17 um, I really did not know how to deal with it and it set me on a path of um alcohol and that's how I got through that whole. I'm going to get emotional. Um, it actually saved me for a long time.

Speaker 2:

And then, uh, probably when I was 30 years old, I came to. You know, I was still trying to learn the native cultural stuff, but it just wasn't working when you live that kind of a lifestyle. And when I was 30, I kind of woke up and decided I didn't want to live that way anymore. I did not go to treatment or anything, but I did start going to AA and since that very first day I have never had another drink. I've been clean and sober for 36 years, when I was three years sober, my 18-year-old son took his own life and that really set me, um, set me back for a little bit, but I must say, um, it was a huge turning point in my life. I absolutely dove deeper into my spirituality. Um, Excuse me for getting emotional I since then I mean that when that happened I absolutely looked into where do we go when we die? Where do we go when we die? Was he okay? I began talking to him and I had so many readings from different people psychic readers, mediums so many people came into my life that helped me connect with him. I learned how to connect with him by myself and he has taught me. He's one of my teachers, I think. You know. I know that everything happens for a reason. I know that that was supposed to happen. That was one of the things he came here to do. I should grab a Kleenex, because I'm getting teary eyed. That taught me a lot about reincarnation, our many, many, many lifetimes that we have and we keep coming back to do unfinished karma, and had it not been for that, I don't know that I'd have learned as much as I learned about the cycle of lifetimes and how we keep coming back with the same family of souls. So now you know I understand why he did what he did, I believe. Well, I absolutely know that it was something I needed to experience in my life, because I had done the same thing in a previous life and devastated my parents, and so I needed to have that experience. See the other side of that, and I know that's what he came here to do. That was his mission for his whole lifetime. I know that's what he came here to do. That was his mission for his whole lifetime.

Speaker 2:

It's still very difficult, oh gosh, Because I miss him. Oh gosh, oh gosh. I didn't think I was going to get so emotional. I can usually talk about it pretty easily. Um, I think when he's close is when I feel him and I get emotional, so that those two things are really the catalyst for where I'm at today. Okay, I'm going to get a grip here. Um, so after that, um, yeah, I went on this mission to um, find out all about the spirit, the spirit world. You know, I I needed to know, I needed answers, and that's exactly what I did, and I found many answers and, um, I'm I'm able to help a lot of people that have experienced what I experienced. Um, so that was the beginning, I mean, that was the beginning of all of this.

Speaker 2:

Um, yeah, in a nutshell, I guess, so in a very, that was the beginning profound and intense nutshell very intense, yeah, very intense, and you know that's definitely part of shamanism, is know you die the shaman's death, and so it was like my soul was reborn after going through walking through the fire, so to speak.

Speaker 1:

Can you speak more about that concept of dying the shaman's death, because it is such an important part of that journey?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I will let me grab a kleenex really nice, I had one that close. Um, well, it's kind of like you know, we hear a lot about the dark night of the soul and that's that's a turning point for everyone. When they reach that place where they have to walk through some real darkness and look at yourself, they go within and all of your own demons and dark parts of you. It's kind of you know that from my experience of people that I've met, the most powerful shamans are the ones that have had the most tragic things that they've had to walk through.

Speaker 2:

You reach a point in your life where, um, you feel like you're at a crossroads where sometimes you want to die physically, I mean, really think about leaving the earth because it's just too hard. Um, something then ignites within you and you are able to and you are able to and it's usually with help with teachers and coaches you get through all of those things that you think are, you know, so bad that you can't get through life and you wake up to feel like you're a new person. And, symbolically, a lot of times shamanic teachers will have you go out into the woods and lay in a hole in the ground, and the symbolism of it is you're born into a new soul, you're born into a new body. You leave all that stuff behind, you've conquered it and you awaken into a stronger person.

Speaker 1:

I had the honor of participating in a vision quest this past January and part of the ceremony that I went through in that experience was that process of consciously choosing to leave it all behind, and that's something that I love about bringing in that ceremonial aspect is. A lot of times, I think, when we step into that dark night of the soul or dying the shaman's death, it feels in the moment like it wasn't a choice. It feels like it's kind of forced upon you all of these things that you don't want to experience, and the beauty of when you can get to that point of choosing to let it go and choosing to get up again I think is so empowering.

Speaker 2:

Right, that's when the shift happens. You can actually feel yourself, shift into a different place, to where you're more accepting. And yeah, it just changed you. Body, mind and soul shifts into another place, a higher place, a higher vibration.

Speaker 1:

So it sounds like that your spiritual journey started with that exploration of past lives and what happens once we die. At what point did it shift into really focusing on shamanism and morph into the practice that you have today?

Speaker 2:

you know, because once we want to experience, you know, go into deep meditation and and travel um journey into other places. You know that is shamanism. Um, yeah, I, I can't really put a timeline on it. It all kind of happened, you know, um, as the days went by, the more I learned, the deeper my understanding was, the more I was able to learn things that the spirits were teaching me. My ancestors. Excuse me, so you know, that's basically where we get our information as shamans is from our spirit guides, and the more open our heart is, the more we are grateful, the more we are willing to be of service to others, the more they are willing to work with us and help us.

Speaker 2:

I feel that sorry when I do any kind of healing ceremony. You know Reiki, I use a lot of Reiki energy. I know that it's not me, it is my helpers that are doing all of it, and you know I always give credit to them. Because you know I learned early on that the most important thing to remember as a shaman or as a medicine person to keep your ego in check. You must keep your ego in check and if you don't, your spirit helpers they'll leave, they won't work with you If you have a huge ego or if you start taking credit for things that you should be crediting them for. So that was the biggest thing that was put upon me right from the get-go, and I preach that today. You know to others. You know, keep your ego in check, because you will lose your magic if you don't.

Speaker 2:

You know, and another thing you know, with the Native culture, the word shaman isn't really a part of Native American culture. The word shaman, I believe, is actually Russian. Perhaps there are A lot of people can relate to that word shaman, but I don't really consider myself a shaman. I consider myself a medicine person. I work with all the medicines of the earth. You know the animal medicines, the plant medicines, the stone people medicines, the energies. You know the wind, the fire, everything like that has medicine, and those are the things I work with. And so the better term would be medicine person. But, like I said, I use the word shaman just because it's easy. You know and we all understand what that means. I think, anyway it's easy.

Speaker 1:

You know and we all understand what that means, I think, anyway. And so, at what point or was there a point, I suppose, in that journey for you of when you were learning and you were connecting with all of these different aspects of your practice, was there a moment when you realized this calling to become a medicine person or work with the medicine in the way that you do now?

Speaker 2:

I think I felt that long ago, like as a young person, I felt that calling and I just didn't quite know how to get there and so it took what it took. And you know, apparently, you know, all of my helpers, my spirit helpers, knew that I had to walk through these difficult things. They knew that was part of my life mission. That's why I was here, I had to come and experience those things. And they knew that. And so they, you know, they walked with me until I got through all that, and then they knew I was ready to really do the other work. So, yeah, I felt that calling, probably as as young as 10. What?

Speaker 1:

was it? I'm curious.

Speaker 2:

Took what it took to get here.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say I'm curious if you could share a little bit about what that process was like once they knew that you were ready, once you had walked that path and you stepped into almost that training space of really starting to work with the tools and the medicine and welcome that in. What was that experience like for you?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think I would wake up. I think I was downloaded at night while I was sleeping, downloaded with information, and I'm sure I was, and I think that I went on many journeys while I slept and, of course, didn't remember when I would awaken. But I would know things that I didn't know beforehand and, you know, didn't really realize where the information came from exactly. But it started like that just just knowing, waking up and knowing what I needed to do and knowing, just knowing certain things that I had no way of knowing. And then, as time went on, I like even now I will even receive things in my waking state.

Speaker 2:

You know, as I'm sitting, I don't even necessarily have to be actually meditating, but you know, we meditate even when we're cooking or doing, especially doing crafts or artwork. We're really open to receive information then. So I pick up things then a lot too, and you know guidance and instructions. So I think I'm just always open to receive. Now, you know, because stuff will come in at very odd times as well, and I'll know when it's not my thought. So, yeah, they're always around me, guiding me. Yeah, it's pretty comforting too to know that I have all of these loving beings that are always around me.

Speaker 1:

I love your story. I love that story because I think it speaks to something that a lot of our community members experience of that deep knowing that they're called to do something more and maybe they're journeying at night or they know that they have a guide with them and they just feel like they can't quite cross that barrier. And I love just the example that you have of the fact that it is possible and it's possible to connect. But one of the things that I appreciate the most about you is that even now, you're still learning and there's no. I never get the sense from you and I would love to hear your perspective on this but I never get the sense from you that you feel like you've arrived.

Speaker 2:

You're just continuously on the journey and I really treasure that perspective. Yeah, absolutely, I feel like I'm still in kindergarten. And it's true, you know there's so much information in our and beyond our realm that we could never, ever, ever know at all. You know there's always room for growth and always room for more information, more learning. Yeah, and I feel like I've just barely stuck my toe in the water, for sure.

Speaker 1:

And so in this conversation that you know, we've kind of given a couple different names to it shamanism, or practicing with medicine. But how would you, if somebody asked you what the practice of? We'll call it shamanism for the purpose of the podcast someone asked you what shamanism was. How would you define it or explain it to them?

Speaker 2:

It is the practice of awakening to a point, of knowing your connection to your spirit helpers and working with them on a daily basis and throughout your whole life. Your life becomes your whole path. Your whole waking life, your sleeping life is connecting to your spirit helpers and being guided by them. It's not a part-time thing. You don't just do it on the weekends or when you get home from work. It is every second of your life. You are connecting with them and listening to them and reacting to the information that they're giving you A constant, it's a way of life and it's all about spirit spirits. Unseen, the unseen world.

Speaker 1:

So on a daily basis. What does that look like for you personally?

Speaker 2:

oh gosh. Well, I do a lot of fun things. You know I take my dog out, I go hiking, um, I uh go camping. You know I do my housework, I you know all the normal things. But even when I'm doing all of those things, my mind is tuned in, I'm tuned into the other realm. It's always like part of me is in this world and part of me is in the other world, like one foot in each place always. And you can learn to do that and walk in balance with both worlds and have a very full and rich normal life and then have a very powerful, powerful life that you work with all these powerful spirit helpers and you know, occasionally you'll feel like a different one that steps in and starts working, like you get a new, a new one, and yeah, it's just an amazing way to live life. I think I can't do it any other way. I mean, it saved me. It saved my life.

Speaker 1:

And I'm curious in that I feel like shamanism as a whole is becoming more and more popular, especially in spiritual circles, and I'm really curious to know your thoughts. Having such a deep connection to, especially, the native culture around some of these medicine practices, I'm curious what your thoughts are on some of these more modern interpretations of shamanism that we're seeing pop up throughout the spiritual community.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, I don't know that I can comment too much on that because I don't really know all of the facts about each one. I know that there are a lot of them that are advertised online. You see a lot of advertisements to come and learn shamanism. Some of them, you know, you get a certificate. My belief on that is you know, it takes a lifetime to learn these things. It's a lifetime process and, like you said, we never really arrive. We're always learning.

Speaker 2:

I believe that you know some of these classes that are offered do teach you like the basics, like what it's about, where to start, but I don't know that they can actually tell you you're going to leave from this a full blown shaman. You know that part. I just can't go along with that. But you know, people are interested and there's so many people that are, they're going to these and they're they're seeking, you know, and that's a good thing. It's it's telling us that the world is waking up and they want, they want to know more. The everyday life is not enough and I don't think religion fills those holes that people are trying to fill. They need something deeper and more real. So that's kind of my take on those.

Speaker 1:

And I so appreciate that, because one of the definitions that you gave a little bit earlier about what shamanism can be is that ability to awaken to that inner life, that energetic spiritual life and that's something that we try and do with our courses and with our podcasts is that idea that it's a journey of seeking and awakening to that truth that is within yourself, that there's not this external thing that we can give you and suddenly you're a shaman or you're a medicine person or you have the answers of the universe.

Speaker 1:

It's that continuous process of finding that inner truth and that inner world where spirit lives and where your guides can help you and guide you in that process. And I think that perspective. I remember one of the messages that my guides gave me at the very start of my journey. My journey started with a lot of anxiety and I remember at one point they told me, very similar to what you were told about how your ego can't come into the practice is. They used to remind me that humility is the antidote to anxiety, because when you can step in that space and you can remember that you're not alone, that this isn't you, that there's not this right answer, that you're going to have the medicines, is that process of almost humbling yourself and opening up to where that truth is coming from and how spirit is speaking to you in this moment?

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's beautifully said.

Speaker 1:

So I'm curious if you could touch on some of the traditional aspects of a shamanic practice. Something that we learned from you in our shamanic weekend was you and I had a conversation on the four directions and the meaning of those and how they integrate into your practice, as well as things like the medicine wheel and the actual process of shamanic journeying. So I'm curious if you could touch on some of those points for our audience, Sure.

Speaker 2:

Well, the directions are the medicine wheel. So the sacred medicine wheel is considered like a map of all of reality. So we have the seven directions, which are the east, south, west, north, above, below and then in between earth and sky. Those are the basic blueprint for the map. Each direction has many, many, many medicines, trees, animals, colors, elements that go with each of the directions. So all of those things are in this circle, creates the entire universe and beyond the cosmos. All of it is encompassed in this medicine wheel. Everything that is in creation is in this medicine wheel, and so it's a concept, it's a way of life.

Speaker 2:

Some people have called it a religion. It's not a religion but, for lack of a better word, you know it's a way of life. You can build a physical medicine wheel with stones, and then each stone has a symbolic meaning, and then you have this physical symbolism of the entire creation. And so I have this little one in my backyard, because I have a place where there's no grass in my yard. So it's a perfect little spot to build and it's only about four and a half feet in diameter, but it's a very, very powerful spot in my yard. My family has land out on the Jefferson River and my sister and I built a huge, probably about a 20-foot in diameter medicine wheel there. And what it does? It creates a portal or a vortex of energy that comes into your property or your backyard, wherever you build it, and creates this highly vibrational healing place. And so we go there, we do prayers there, we walk around it. You can actually, you know, just by walking around a medicine wheel, go into a deep meditation.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, there's no end to learning about the medicine wheel either. I mean, there's books written on it, there's so much information online and yet you can never stop learning. There's no end to the learning of what the wheel is doing. It's constantly working. There's no end to the learning of what the wheel is doing. It's constantly working. It's very powerful.

Speaker 2:

So, yes, I integrate that into my sessions, into my prayers, everything I do. I offer tobacco to the directions if I'm out hiking. They're just a powerful part. We all have a medicine wheel within us. We are all a medicine wheel. We have a center, we have the directions, we have everything that exists within ourselves, which you know we've. We've heard that before, that you know, christ, consciousness is within us, it's not out here. All of creation dwells within us, and so we are all a medicine wheel. Um, yeah, it's kind of hard to relay that you know, in a quick answer, but, um, there's so much information on it and it's such a powerful, powerful thing to integrate into your belief system if you are doing this kind of work.

Speaker 1:

If someone wanted to start the process of maybe making their own you know four-foot medicine wheel in their backyard, where would you have them start? What are kind of those basic aspects of it that would give them a starting place and how could they use it in their practice?

Speaker 2:

Well, to build it is a process, it's a ceremony in itself. And so you would go out and gather stones from the mountains, the river, wherever you wanted, but you always, you know, ask permission before you pick up the stone. Ask the stone if it wants to be a part, leave tobacco, you know, and say thank you. When you gather all of your stones, there's a certain way to put them together. You know starting, a starting point and a finishing point. And you use tobacco and you burn, smudge, smudge each of the stones. You use tobacco and you burn, smudge, smudge each of the stones. So once your wheel was put together, you've created a very powerful vortex on your property. Then you can start walking around offering it tobacco to all of the stones as you walk clockwise around it.

Speaker 2:

You can do morning prayers at your wheel. You can do morning prayers at your wheel, you can do evening prayers. Yeah, it's pretty much working for you. And then you just need to keep it, I always say, awakened, because if you ignore it and don't do anything with it and just let it sit, it's going to lose its power. So it needs tobacco, it needs gratitude and it needs your presence there occasionally. It doesn't have to be daily, but just on a regular basis Go out and walk the wheel and do your prayers and give gratitude. So yeah, it's pretty simple.

Speaker 1:

I mean it's powerful but yet not complicated. And this is a point of personal curiosity for me why tobacco? There's such a spiritual significance to it why? Tobacco, and is there an alternative if someone doesn't have tobacco that they could use?

Speaker 2:

Yes, so cornmeal is used a lot also. Tobacco, to the plains tribes, is very, very sacred. I was always taught that tobacco was the very first plant that Mother Earth gave to the people, to humans, and it is the most sacred plant on the planet and it was never intended to be smoked the way it is today. You know, people buy cigarettes and smoke. It's actually abuse of the plant.

Speaker 2:

We do smoke a tobacco mix in our sacred pipes but it's never, ever inhaled. And we smoke that because it's so sacred. We leave it as a gift on Mother Earth, but the vibration of the tobacco is very, very high and so when we leave it, when we harvest our plants and we leave tobacco, the tobacco raises the vibration of what we just have taken, like the cut plant, or even on the earth. If you pick up a stone and you leave the tobacco, it raises the vibration there and the earth feels that gratitude. A lot of the southern tribes use cornmeal and it's used in the same way, use cornmeal and it's used in the same way. They don't smoke it, of course, but they use it a lot for giving back, showing gratitude, and so in that process of walking the medicine wheel and using the tobacco as an expression of gratitude.

Speaker 1:

Part of the medicine wheel practice is engaging with those seven directions. I wonder if you could give us a brief, obviously knowing that there's so much depth to each one. But in your personal practice, can you give us a brief overview of the symbolism of each direction?

Speaker 2:

Well, the East is the beginning of everything, um, the sun rises in the east, so that is the place of birth. Uh, physical birth, all birth, um, that is the direction that we would turn to when we're looking for uh, new, uh, birthing new ideas, birthing anything new. We would pray to the east, then to the south is childhood. So it goes from birth to childhood to adulthood in the west and then elderhood in the north, and then you would come back around to birth again. So, and then you would come back around to birth again. So, in the north we are in our final stages of life, we die, we come back to the east and we're born again.

Speaker 2:

So the cycle of life just repeats over and over and over and over and over. Every night the sun goes down, it's born again in the morning. It just makes the circle. Everything is a circle, everything dies and has a birth over and over and over and over and over. So we have spring in the east, summer in the south, fall in the west, winter in the north. So all of those things are the cycle, cycle of life on a deep, deep level, over and over and over. Just like us, we die, we come back, we die, we come back until there's no more, until we've completed our cycle of lives, and then we don't have to come back anymore.

Speaker 1:

Completed our cycle of lives and then we don't have to come back anymore. You spoke a moment ago about the medicine wheel that we have within us. If we were to look at all of that amazing information that you just shared and find it in that medicine wheel within, what does that look like?

Speaker 2:

um, well, pretty much, like you know, all medicine wheels we have um the ability, well and two and I didn't touch on this so also encompassed in the medicine wheel is body, mind, soul and spirit. All of those are um in the medicine wheel. And the biggest lesson that I usually talk about when I talk about the wheel is how we are. Those things are not separate Our body, our mind, our soul, and our mental, our mind. They're all the same thing. So if you're struggling mentally, it will affect your physical. Mentally it will affect your physical body, it will affect your soul. If you're struggling with something physical, it's going to affect your mental health. It all gets affected. Whenever one thing is out of balance, it all gets affected. Whenever one thing is out of balance, everything goes out of balance. So the key is to keep everything in balance. Anytime you are struggling emotionally or mentally, you will have those things manifest in a physical manner.

Speaker 2:

I honestly believe that all physical illness, disease, comes from an emotional cause. I don't think those things start without some kind of emotional trigger, like I myself when my son died, my second son when he passed away, it was about a year later I started having symptoms of rheumatoid and you know, and now my hands are very crooked and I totally know that was because I was so distraught. I was so emotionally distraught that it, um, my immune system was just shutting down and no, rheumatoid is an autoimmune disease. So I totally know that that's what happened and you know I did everything I could to stop it, but I couldn't. Today I'm, you know, I'm pretty healthy. I don't struggle with rheumatoid at all. I have the effects of crooked toes and crooked hands, but I don't have any pain whatsoever. It doesn't stop me from doing anything I want to do. I can hike, I can bike, I do all of those things. But I have, you know, I still have the scars, so to speak, from that.

Speaker 2:

And I do, you know, I take medication. I have to say that. But I truly believe that I'm healed from that. And I do, you know, I take medication. I have to say that, but I truly believe that I'm healed from that, you know. But it took its toll on me and you know, that's just more proof that that body, mind and soul we are not, those things are not separate at all.

Speaker 2:

So when you're struggling emotionally, you really need to get yourself straightened out before your physical body manifests it into some way that you know is very, very harmful. Because who knows? You know, I think a lot of times with a broken heart you're actually going to get some kind of heart disease. So it's, they can't be separated, and I don't know to the extent that some people realize that how true that is.

Speaker 2:

With the disease of alcoholism, that is considered a spiritual disease, and that is because the only way to heal and recover from alcoholism is through a spiritual connection. There's nothing else on the planet that will work but finding, they say, a higher power and connecting to that higher power, and then you're free from your addiction. So that is a spiritual disease, all connected. I mean it's so powerful once you realize. So when you have one thing that you feel is getting out of balance, you need to really take care of that and balance it back out before the other things all kick in, because it's all one ball of wax, so to speak because it's all one ball of wax, so to speak.

Speaker 1:

That's something that I really love about that concept of the medicine wheel and that idea that everything is a circle.

Speaker 1:

The way that I like to explain it to our students is everything in life is constantly finding a state of balance, and so if you're having, let's say, an extreme state of grief and your lungs develop something like COPD because of where that grief is stored, the body, the mind, the spirit, the soul is going to find ways to compensate for that.

Speaker 1:

So it comes into a state of balance.

Speaker 1:

But that balance isn't alwaysmonious, and I like that difference between the two, of the fact that your body can find balance in an unharmonious state.

Speaker 1:

If something like COPD or an emotion isn't dealt with, it'll balance itself out in other ways to compensate for it. And so part of engaging with the wheel and looking at all of those different parts of ourselves is finding how we can bring those into unity and harmony so that they're in a true state of balance and that they are all healed and whole. And one of the things that I also love about the shamanic practice, and especially about some of the traditional shamanic cultures, is there's that saying that the shaman is the one who sees in the dark, and I love that because I think shamanism from my perspective and I'd love to hear your thoughts is one of the few spiritual traditions that truly goes in and acknowledges the shadows and the dark and knows that they're not something to be afraid of but there's something to be open to and curious about, and know that they are all part of that wheel, of that circle and of that cycle.

Speaker 2:

I agree Part of shamanism is knowing that you're going to have to face some very low vibrational dark entities at certain points when you're doing different kinds of work. They're out there, they're part, you know. Dark and light, black and white, they're all duality, everything's duality. So, yes, there are dark spirits and you know they are always around us because they don't want us to do good. You know they would love to put the light out. So, yeah, they are our constant with shamanic work. The darkness, when I work with trying to free someone from you know having an attachment, someone from you know having an attachment, instead of, I mean, a lot of people want to smudge them away and, you know, cast them out and chase them out and get out. And I've heard people that like, swear at them and call them swear words and get out of my house Like, oh my gosh, they're thriving on that, they love that.

Speaker 2:

What you need to do is call in your spirit helpers. You call in the most powerful spirit helpers you have and ask them to take this entity to the light. It needs to be healed. It needs to go back to the heart of our creator, where it came from, because everything came from the light in the beginning. Everything is of creator god spirit, um, and they need healing. That is. What they're lacking is love. So we send them off with love and they don't want to be loved, you know, and that's, and it's the same thing with disease in our body um, we need to love it, and I've heard this so many times from people with cancer. You know, fuck cancer. That's like a slogan these days and it's like you know, that is not how you get rid of cancer. You get rid of your cancer by loving it. You send love to the cancer in your body and that's because it's lacking love, that's why it's there. Everything heals with love, even the dark spirits.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, you're right, you know you can't, um, you can't kill them with more darkness, and the object isn't to kill them anyway, it's to heal them something you spoke on earlier when we were talking about the medicine wheel, but I'd love to clarify before we move on from it is you said we have body, mind, soul and spirit, and I know that some of our listeners are thinking what's the difference between spirit and soul? How would you explain?

Speaker 2:

that. Let's see, I got to think about that for a minute. So we have our body, our mind, that would be our emotional selves. So you know one or the other. We have those four for each direction. So one is and I don't know that it really matters which one you label which, but one is emotional self and the other is spirit self. So our spirit self is our, you know. So our spirit self is our. You know, connection to the higher realms, to God, if you will. And then the emotional self is our human emotions. You know the thing that makes life so difficult If it weren't for emotions, life would be a piece of cake, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, something Christina and I were talking about on one of our recent episodes was how, looking at you know, the medicine wheel and the directions and what symbolism each direction has can shift depending on which culture or tribe or tradition you're looking at. I'm curious if you know I don't want to say the reasoning behind that because, like we were talking about, it's not that there's this one universal truth to all of this that we're all trying to find. Is that the reason? It's just a different interpretation of spirit.

Speaker 2:

I'm not sure I understand your question totally. Say that again tribes.

Speaker 1:

You know there's water in the West and fire in the South and sometimes that changes that slight difference between the interpretations of the medicine wheel.

Speaker 2:

No, I think you know, and I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think those things are all the same. I do know that a few different tribes have switched the colors around. So it's yellow in the east and red in the south, black in the west and white in the north, and I have seen the east and the south switch the yellow and the red flip-flopped. And then I believe the Cherokee use blue, dark blue, instead of black, like a royal blue. But those are really the only differences I've seen, and maybe some of the animals are different in some of the directions, so those can vary somewhat. But all in all, everything's in the wheel. Even if they change things a little bit, it's all still there works the same way. You know, the meaning is the same.

Speaker 1:

But that was a good question, because I forgot to mention that that sometimes there's a few things that are different and it I mean it seems like it does just come back to that idea that it's, it's this representation of the universe, of everything in creation, and so those teeny, tiny details don't necessarily impact it, as long as that idea is there.

Speaker 2:

Right your intention. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And so I'm curious is there an aspect of shamanism or the shamanic practice that we haven't touched on that you'd like to speak a little bit about Gosh? I don't know, I can't think of anything right off the top of my head and I'm curious if I can ask. One of the things that we had spoken about before this podcast is the importance of sharing our stories, and that was something that we did in that shamanic weekend retreat. I'm curious if there are any stories or experiences from your personal journey, working with your spirits or with the medicine wheel that have had.

Speaker 2:

Um. The one that's coming to mind is I'll talk about this one um. I work a lot with um, the sasquatch people, or the Sabe. They are a very powerful, powerful being and they are interdimensional beings. So they are physical beings part of the time and they are in spirit part of the time. They have intelligence, way, way, way beyond anything we could imagine. They are very telepathic. They communicate with us telepathically. They are able to, you know, teleport objects wherever they want. I've received many gifts from them in my house, marbles.

Speaker 2:

But the story that's coming to mind right now is in my backyard I have flowers growing along one wall, flowers hanging all over. But I had a garden where I had a bunch of Buddha statues and I had a great, big rose quartz that was bigger than a basketball. It was quite large sitting on a stump in this little garden along the wall and it had been there for several years. And just this spring I went outside to do something and I went over by my little medicine wheel and I had to do a double take. That big rose quartz was in the middle of my medicine wheel and I just stood there thinking how did that get there. I did not put that there and I knew my husband wouldn't, because he's oblivious to all of it. But I asked him you didn't move that rock over there? And he said no, I didn't do that. Why would I do that? And I knew, nobody broke into my backyard and moved the rock. I knew that they did it, I just knew. And after I thought for a few minutes, I thought well, of course that should go in the middle of my wheel, this big, huge rose quartz, which the whole energy of rose quartz is love and heart energy. And of course it should be in the middle of my medicine wheel. The middle stone is symbolic of creator God spirit and of course it should have been in there. So it was like, oh my gosh, thank you for doing that. Thank you, but it blew my mind. It blew my mind. I can just imagine them thinking why does she not have this big rock in the middle of her medicine wheel? Well, if she's not going to do it, I guess we better do it. And there it was. So crazy things like that.

Speaker 2:

Oh, another time they took dog food out of my house. One morning I went out to my patio and I had put a little dish of stones on my patio table. I was cleaning up. I have stones everywhere and I thought I've got to move some of these rocks. So I put them on a flat basket and just set them on my patio table a bunch of stones.

Speaker 2:

And the next morning I went out and there was all this dog food all over my rocks and they had picked out the little heart-shaped pieces of dog food and there was probably 30 pieces of dog food on these rocks.

Speaker 2:

And I remember standing there staring at it, thinking what in the heck, how did the dog food get on my rocks and why? And then it's like they told me we put it there, we were decorating your rocks, so just crazy stuff like that. It's so confirming to me that they are all around, that they come, they visit me in my backyard. We know they're out in the woods but they're able to come and visit people right in town. So those were a couple of things that happened that were so profound to me, because I needed that physical confirmation that, oh my gosh, yes, they are here, they're always around me. So that was pretty cool and I don't know if that's the kind of thing you wanted me to relay, but that's what came to mind. That was pretty cool, and I don't know if that's the kind of thing you wanted me to relay, but that's what came to mind.

Speaker 1:

No, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1:

And do you know, I don't think I ever told you this story when we were ending the shamanic retreat this past June.

Speaker 1:

You had spoken to me at some point about working with the Sasquatch people and how oftentimes the way that they invite you to work with them is by giving you a marble, and there had been a couple you know little threads of conversation throughout that and that experience working with the Sasquatch people had never been something that was in my awareness until that point. And on the very last day when Christina and I were walking to our car on that big dirt road outside of the cabin, I happened to look down at my foot before I stepped into the car, last time I would ever be on the property. I happened to look down on my foot and in the middle of the gravel path, where it couldn't have rolled possibly, there was a marble right at the end of my toe like it had just rolled onto the tip of my shoe. And so I've been, I've been connecting with them since and that was just. That was such a magical experience then.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yes, that's so cool. And they left it because they knew that you knew it would be from them. Had you not known, they probably wouldn't have left it. So they knew that you were open to working with them. Oh, that's awesome. I love that.

Speaker 1:

It was a really beautiful one of many that we had at that retreat, I think, but I just wanted to share that with you. And, of course, one thing I want to touch on before we end for the day is your shamanic art and tools and jewelry that you create. Could you touch on that a little bit and how that came to be and what inspires you to make those?

Speaker 2:

Well, I've always been creative, I've always liked to do crafty things, but I, you know, I've been really drawn to working with feathers and stones and, you know, animal fur, all of those things. So I generally just sit down and go into a another state of of being and just put things together and I've always done that for years. So I make, you know, feather fans and wands and jewelry, medicine bags and I do shows. Occasionally I do powwows, sell things.

Speaker 2:

I always know that the right person gets the right tool. I can always tell when they connect they'll come up and immediately know that something is theirs, they and I know, I know I think, oh my gosh, I. So everything that I make is just waiting for their person. Basically, a lot of times I do special orders and I like doing that because I can kind of visualize the person as I'm putting it together and gather information and put a lot of personal energy for them into the tool and they always feel it and when I'm finished and I give it to them, it's usually pretty mind blowing the connection that they make with that tool. So, yeah, it's another thing that I'm guided. I mean, I'm just the hands they work through me. I can't really take credit for those things either, because it's these higher beings that are doing all the creating, but it's a lot of fun. It's powerful yeah.

Speaker 1:

I love it. Actually, I have two of the necklaces that you've made and they are on my person anytime. I do shamanic work, so thank you and your guides for those. I love that. So if someone wanted to connect with you and either look at your work that you do or engage with you, how would they do that?

Speaker 2:

uh, well, I do have a Facebook page. It's Kim Doni Boyle. I do, you know, some distance work occasionally, so you know I am available for that. Probably the best way would be to just contact me and I can send, you know, lots of pictures of what I have. Or you know people want to order something specifically. You know, I kind of like to talk to them and get a feel for their personality and just pick up their energy through a phone call. So, um, phone calls are okay too. You know, if they want to go on Facebook and find me, they could private message me and we could do a phone call. It's a little more personal to do a phone call.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful, yeah, beautiful. Well, kim, is there anything else that you want to leave our listeners? Or one last piece of advice or guidance before we end for today?

Speaker 2:

I think, probably, if you are open and willing and wanting to learn shamanic practices, I think my best advice would be to work with people that you truly trust and love. I think that's really important to have a bond with the people that are guiding you and to have a real trust, mostly a trust to know that their best interests are for your well-being. Yeah, and I think it's a very powerful way to live life and that it's also a commitment. You know you have to be committed to listen and be guided by the spirits, and that's what keeps them around is by your commitment to them and your love for them and gratitude.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, beautiful. Well, kim, it has been such an honor and a joy to get to talk with you today. Thank you for sharing your voice and your wisdom. Joy to get to talk with you today. Thank you for sharing your voice and your wisdom and, of course, thank you to your guides for being with us and aiding this conversation as well.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, it's really nice to see you again, and. I hope that I'll see you in person again sometime soon. That'd be great. Absolutely All right. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

I appreciate your interview today, and it was my honor, so thank you. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, facebook, youtube and TikTok at Moon Rising Institute, or visit our website moonrisinginstitutecom to learn more about our mission and find future opportunities to connect with our community of shamanic mystics. Once again, thank you for sharing space with us today, and until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.