Wisdom Rising

Creating Sacred Home Spaces and Embracing Ancient Wisdom with Angell Deer

September 13, 2024 • Christine Renee, Isabel Wells, and Shantel Ochoa • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Discover the transformative power of ancient wisdom with Angell Deer, an international speaker, author, and shamanic practitioner. Angell's story is a compelling journey from the high-pressure corporate world to a life in harmony with nature and spiritual traditions. Learn how he rediscovered his true self through profound healing experiences in remote places like the Peruvian jungle, ultimately founding the Sanctuary, a shamanic healing center in the Catskill Mountains. His incredible shift from material success to a fulfilling life built on patience, dedication, and unconditional self-love is truly inspirational.

We discuss how significant life crises often push individuals toward seeking profound change and highlight the importance of internal success, which includes emotional connection, balance, and alignment with one's sacred purpose. Our conversation contrasts the traditional Western focus on external achievements with the holistic approach of various mystical and native traditions, emphasizing that true success stems from internal health and wholeness.

We also explore how to create a sacred home vibration, maintain energy balance within our living spaces, and the impact of consistent spiritual practices such as rituals and meditation. Angell shares insights on setting up sacred spaces and cultivating patience for spiritual growth. He emphasizes the importance of integrating ancient shamanic practices into modern life to foster a deep connection with nature and spirit. Tune in to embrace these timeless teachings for personal transformation and lasting fulfillment.

Connect with Angell:

Website: https://www.thesanctuaryheal.com/
Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/angelldeer1/photos
Read Angell's Book: https://a.co/d/bYYIAuH

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
Website: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/moonrisinginstitute
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moonrisingmystics
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moonrising.institute
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@moonrisinginstitute

Book a session with Isabel: https://calendly.com/into-the-deep/schedule

Book a FREE 15 minute connect call with Izzy: https://calendly.com/moonrisinginstitute/connect

Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to Wisdom Rising. I'm Christine Rene, your host for today, and I'm just coming on a bit early to give you a heads up on what today's episode is going to be all about. Today we have on guest speaker Angel Deer, who is a international speaker, a author, as well as shamanic practitioner and teacher, and today he's sharing with us his personal journey, his story from becoming a corporate CEO, veterinarian, phd, into leading a life in balance with nature and balance and harmony with his spiritual practices, and really how his definition of success has changed, one that includes patience and dedication and consistency and unconditional love of self. Here's a little sampler of today's episode, and I hope you do enjoy this conversation.

Speaker 2:

Any creation you do, you know you create a new class. You want to write a book. You're creating a new song. You're creating a new house. You're creating a new relationship. You're creating a new I don't know land that you're working with. All of this need co-creation in order to work, meaning creating with you and spirit.

Speaker 1:

I hope that little sampler gave you some inspiration to stick with us as we dive into this week's episode. Welcome back to Wisdom Rising. I'm your host, christine Rene, and today we have a special guest with us, angel Deer, and he is the founder of the Sanctuary, a revered shamanic healing center nestled in the heart of Catskill Mountains, new York. He's spent over nine years fostering this haven for individuals seeking connection to nature and ancient wisdom teachings, and he's also the author of the book the Sacred Web the Magical Craft of your Sacred Shamanic Space, and I'm really excited to bring him on today to discuss his book, his programs and all the things that are going on in his shamanic world. So welcome to the call. Thanks for being with us.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, christine, good to be with you all.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so tell me a little bit about how your world was opened up into the shamanic space. How did you develop that path?

Speaker 2:

Hmm, what I think you know since I was born, since I was little, um, what I think you know since I was born, since I was little, I've always been fascinated by my mystical connection to nature.

Speaker 2:

For me, and that's a very more, I would say, more, animist than shamanic in many ways right, it's like every single felt so alive, I was fascinated thing ever felt so alive, I was fascinated. My parents always said I just spent hours just picking up a piece of grass and looking at it and a little insect and trees and plants and rivers, and I always felt that I was in communication with them, but I didn't have the container for it or explanation in my upbringing or culture in some ways. And I guess along the way I lost that. I didn't lose the connection, but I lose like, okay, this is important. I went into a corporate career I, you know, even launched my own businesses and then at some point I was quite sick. I was trapped into this success wheel, chasing some kind of recognition and money and many other things, and I felt really lost.

Speaker 2:

You know, I felt like there was such a wide space between my public image and what was on paper on my resume at the time and what was going on in my inner world yes, I basically felt I was dying, yeah, and I had many signs of it, many signs of illness psychological, mental, emotional and even physical and at some point the pressure became so big that I decided to really quit all that, quit this world, and went on a quest and I spent many years with masters, teachers, in the jungle, in some quite remote places to heal myself. And I guess that's when I got in contact with what we call shamanic tradition, but I'd rather call them ancient wisdom traditions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right and I learned it for myself. Then I started being fascinated by the healing process of this tradition. You know I was trained as a veterinarian, so I have a PhD in veterinary medicine. So I studied medicine, surgery, you know biology from a Western point of view. And then here I am in the jungle of Peru spending weeks doing deep work, and I meet those doctors that are very different than the doctors I knew of, that have very different methods and tools and medicines and ways of healing.

Speaker 2:

But I witnessed magic. I witnessed people coming with very advanced cancer and being healed in a few nights and people having depression their whole life, literally being on meds and getting off their meds a week after this work. And I see all that and then I experience it for myself, also finding clarity, finding purpose and reconnecting to that childhood memory that I had about these visions and this connection to something beyond the physical world that was alive, that was benevolent, that I wanted to communicate. And then I came back. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, because what I did the 20 for 20 years was, was not relevant anymore, and I started to study very deeply with teachers, others. Uh, you know, and long story short.

Speaker 1:

You know I'm teaching those ways now and I do healing work and all of that, but it was really a personal quest most of all for, and I guess it still is in many ways too yeah, and I feel like that's such a common story about how we have to kind of hit, find that rock bottom for ourselves, whether it's psychologically or physical health issues, and then we're we get pulled back into spirit and going, okay, what's going on here, how can I heal myself?

Speaker 1:

Like that was definitely my story as well, both on the you know, running, running, running, trying to keep up with the nine to five, the hustle bustle of the culture that we live in and suppressing our innate spiritual gifts, suppressing our true, authentic selves to like meet societal needs, and then, you know, everything gets torn apart and you have to kind of face. You have to face your, your inner demons, you have to face what's coming up within yourself and the suppression has to stop. And so I see that often in our students and our clients and myself personally, that there's that huge transition of like breaking the cycle and coming back into our spiritual natures once again. And so I love how your journey brought you to numerous teachers and how it was you cultivated a practice in these different regions I'm curious about when you returned home, well, one, where's your main base right now? It's in New York, right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, upstate New York yeah.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful. It's gorgeous up there. Yes, how has all of that integrated into your daily life Because that's going to be a really beautiful bridge and what you've written in your book?

Speaker 2:

Well, when I came back so I used to live in New York City at the time when I left and I came back feeling that, okay, I can't live in the city anymore, I have to. I want to be closer to nature, I want to grow my own food, I want to be able to bring people into that experience of connection. And so there was, you know, a few years of transition to make that happen, right to purchase the land I'm living on, to build, you know, the retreat center, to build everything that we have here. And because of my transition from this one life as a CEO of a big company to, I guess, for many people feeling that, okay, where's that guy? What happened to you?

Speaker 2:

So, because of that, many people that I knew from my old world that were suffering from different things and seeing me happy and on purpose and excited and not stressed and very connected, people started asking me hey, can you help me? This is what I'm dealing with, right. So I didn't go into shamanic healing or offering rituals, offering teachings you know a lot of what I do is teaching those ancient cosmologies because I was like, okay, this is what I need to do. It's because, you know, a lot of people started asking for it and I realized, oh, I really enjoy that and I want to share that, I want people to hear about that. I come not everyone know about that, uh, and that kind of breached my old world of people that are in a very different um vibration, I would say an environment and this world that is very different, right, yeah, so I think that's always been.

Speaker 2:

You know, a long time ago, a healer teacher told me you are going to be a bridge. That's going to be your main path. Your path is going to be a bridge between different worlds and it's interesting because the shamanic work is your bridge between the seen and the unseen seen. But I think for me it's also come on to bringing people that maybe are not spiritual, you know, or religious, or maybe a little bit, but they don't really understand any of that and they want somehow to access, uh, those kind of healings, but without being saturated or hearing words that they are allergic to, like a verbiage that is maybe difficult to understand. And because you know I sat on the other side of the desk I would say, I think you know, for me the beauty of it is that I was able to put it in a format that was accessible. You know, and obviously you have the, I would say, the more common crowd that is interested in spiritual work, shamanic work, that have done work like this and want to go deeper. There's also that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would be really curious to see what your ratio is between, like you know, the business world. I definitely find that when I worked for, you know, yellowstone club, which is like a multi-billionaire they own the top of the mountain when I was working in that clientele like they only want to do surface level I can't bring them too deep right Versus the people who are actually like really spiritual seekers. And I'm wondering how has that been in your experience? Are you finding the corporate people ready to do the deeper healing work or are they just still fascinated by the rituals, the plant medicine or whatever it may be?

Speaker 2:

I think more and more. I think the way it is today or in the past, I would say, since COVID, almost, you know, since the past two or three years, compared to what it was even five years ago or 10 years ago, there is a huge shift. Oh, that's good to hear, because I think you know, there is such instability in the world that you cannot deny anymore and you can talk about the economy, you can talk about politics, you can talk about social unrest, you can talk about the environment. I think for many people that are might be more sheltered from that because of their life, it's still become more and more obvious.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And people also are questioning their life. Or maybe they are getting a little bit older, they're in their late forties or early 50s and they start feeling, you know, this midlife crisis, this quest for purpose and meaning and wondering is this it? This is all. There is, yeah, one of my clients that she's been a student for many years in the school. She's a woman that owns hundreds of businesses.

Speaker 2:

She's a billionaire, right, she's very wealthy, and she came to this work, you know, because she wanted the meaning that she didn't get from her wealth and her business running and all of that, and also realizing that the way she was was creating illnesses with her kids and problem with her communication with her kids and some of her kids starting to have a lot of problems. And she was like, well, she wasn't, you know, seeing a psychotherapist and doing, but she was like I think I need something else. Yes, I need more in order to somehow heal those relationships, and that's how she came into it and I think that's very common. I think most people, like you mentioned they might wait that something really big happened to make that change. Right? So there's a big life crisis, there's a divorce, there's losing your job, there is something like that and you're going to be pushed into it, you're going to have to search right.

Speaker 2:

They often have people you know it's because of that is because they are in a deep crisis and they've tried everything else. It's not working and they are looking for an alternative right yeah, yeah so you know spirit, you one of my elder teachers. She would say well, either you're going to jump into the raging river and the raging river is your purpose, it's your path, it's what's calling you or spirit is going to come and hit you with a two by four on the back of your head and throw you into it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, I had that experience.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that experience. Yeah, that experience right, most people I had that experience. I was hit by a huge two, by four right, and so she's like it's probably better if you just jump yes, do it yourself.

Speaker 2:

Then you wait, but very often that's very common something is going to come and push you right yeah I think, michael me to say that you know, because there was a traditional rite of passage in traditional societies, or initiation that was, you know, planned for you as you become a teenager, an adult, maybe a mother or father, an elder that the rite of passage, initiation, in fact, they are weaved into the fabric of nature, they are weaving to our development and in a society that doesn't have initiation, that does not have rituals and rite of passage, the rite of passage is going to happen through you, it's going to happen to you. Yes, right, you're not going to have elders around you, you're not to have any idea what's going on. You're not even going to have a name for it. You're going to call it maybe, I don't know, a mental collapse or a depression, but that's really what's happening. It's the soul that's trying to evolve.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

So you know, hopefully the more we get this work out there and the more people know about it, we can avoid waiting for the two by four and find the tool to work that you know before it happens.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I feel like that's so much of what so many healers and lightworkers are trying to do right now Like it's like, let's get ahead of it before you have to get that two board for pushing you into the river, and I'm curious about how your definition of success has changed and how, if that is helping, some of those corporate business people start to look at life a little differently.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you know, when we talk about success, people's's or this person is successful, we talking about external aspect of its life money, car, wealth, jobs, fame, you know, whatever doesn't matter. We never really talk about. This is sleep pretty well, are they stress? Are they balance, are they emotionally connected to themselves? Are they aligned with their sacred purpose? Right, so that's like two success there's an internal success, I would say, and an external success. In our western world, we believe that if we achieve the external success, the byproduct is internal success and unfortunately that's not the way it works right and that seems very logical to me, by the way, 20 years ago, you know.

Speaker 2:

And then seems very logical to me, by the way, 20 years ago. And then we get a better job and we get more money and we just don't understand why this inner world is not really changing that much. From a traditional perspective and I'm talking every tradition on the planet, every mystical tradition, christian mystics, sufism, you know Hebrew, I mean, buddhist, you can and the shamanic and native people around the world, they say no, no, no. In order to have success, you need to have internal success, internal health, internal wholeness, internal connection, internal groundedness, many, many aspects and that, as a byproduct, will create a life out there that is abundant and successful.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Right, so it's a completely reverse process, right? So that's really interesting when you think of it. Because, yeah, I think people kind of feel that because they're going to try to say, okay, let's do a bit of meditation, let's do yoga, or you know, what most people do is say, let's just go on holidays to feel better internally, right, but there's not really a true internal change of we are in our belief system. So people kind of bounce back between this very stressed life and some pain medicine yeah, right, and everybody has their pain medicine, whatever it is to numb the pain and then return and don't understand why, within a few weeks or a few months, they are back to where they were. They don't experience true change.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think that was the big discovery is like oh no, the external success is not the problem. I'm not saying people don't make money, don't have cars, don't have big houses this is not the problem. I'm not saying people don't make money, don't have cars, don't have big houses this is not the problem. But first you need to attend to that, because if you don't do that, you're going to suffer and both can live together. I'm not saying it means renunciation, it means becoming a monk or living in a cave. It has nothing to do with that and often people think that also those old ways and ancient ways say, oh, I don't want to go back live that way. It looks like you know people living in a jungle or in a teepee, that's. That's not about that. It's about a connection to your heart, a connection to your soul. You know an inner state that is very balanced and then, yes, whatever you do in that life out there is aligned with that.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And that can be very successful. That can be very big, that's no problem with that.

Speaker 1:

Well, and in your book you really are showing how you can develop and cultivate an external environment to help you reflect your internal environment. Talk to me a little bit about what brought you to writing your book, the Sacred Web, and what's your personal sanctuary space look like. What does that look like for you?

Speaker 2:

Well, for me, you know what pushed me to write this book.

Speaker 2:

I wanted to do a first short, simple but deep book, and it's not a very long book, but I wanted to make sure there are really key elements in order to set up your home as a sacred space it doesn't have to be an altar, it can be just a whole space and to connect it to not only nature and the cycle of the seasons and many things that happen in the sky, like the moon and all that, but also connected to your inner world, connected to what you are doing.

Speaker 2:

For me, sacred space is not just when I sit for meditation or prayer, it is when I write, it is when I'm sitting with you here, it is when I connect to my young daughter. You know when she wakes up right. So that's the environment in which I'm living. From a shamanic perspective, everything carries life, vibration. Any object now, not just wasting trees and animals, but everything has a vibration, and your home is a huge one. In fact, in peru, people have a lot of practices and rituals in their house to make sure the spirit of the house is happy yes that's really important.

Speaker 2:

You know, I do a lot of house clearing for people and I go either because there is something in the house or because they just don't feel the house feels right, and it's very often because the spirit of the house is not really happy or the spirit of the land the house is sitting on is not happy. So we often do that by layers right. So that's the first step. You need to have some kind of an environment that is reflective to the inner state you want to have If you want to feel really at peace inside. You might not want to go to Times Square in New York City. It might create a different experience than calmness and groundedness.

Speaker 2:

So your home needs to have somehow the feel of what you want to reflect inside yes, and that's why I call it weaving a sacral space, because we are weaving many, many different elements in order to bring that, and for me, that's the foundation of any practice. It doesn't matter if you're spiritual or if you're religious or if you don't believe in any of it. You're going to feel it when you of it. You're going to feel it when you enter a room. You're going to feel that right.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I think that's why it's so important to recognize the health and the energy of your home, like even just having the awareness if someone just had an argument in the living room and you walk into that space, you can energetically feel it, even if that conversation is done and complete. How do we restore that space, how do we bring it back into energetic balance and how can we lift up that energy again? So it's all of the spaces in your home is high vibe and in flow and where I find it really interesting when I, when I do home energy clearance of if there's construction going on or if there's a leaking pipe or if you know what's going on within your house, that's actually very reflective of your personal life and what's going on internally for you. Like, I feel like the house oftentimes is reflecting things that we still need to work on. Do you find that true in your own practice?

Speaker 2:

Yes, for sure, you know, and it's, you know, alive, meaning it's constantly evolving and changing. Yeah, you know, like your energy, you know, this morning I woke up is a different energy of what I felt when I woke up yesterday, you know. So we need to kind of be able to pick up and develop that instruments that tells us maybe it's time for staging the house, or maybe it's time for staging the house or maybe it's time for clearing those cabinets, because there are many aspects Some are very physical really, on how the house is organized. So that's really important. You know, originally the second book I'm writing that's going to be published in a few months Was the first book I wanted to publish and that book is called Becoming the Medicine.

Speaker 2:

It's a deep book on shamanic work and experience. It's a much bigger book but it was like before, as I was writing it I got the message you need to do a book first on the space, the altar, really this aspect of the work, because people might not be interested in deep shamanic work. You know, the second book is a bit more for people advanced, so I wanted to go deeper but everyone that's what spirit told me everyone needs some kind of tools here. I need to write a book that's for everyone. Yeah, you need to write a book that even people are advanced practitioner need to find some gems in it. So I was like, okay, and that's how the sacred web was born.

Speaker 1:

Uh, ultimately, right well and and it's it's a great manual to like, really get hit, all of the things like. That's what I I felt when I was reading through it. And you know, I moved into my home back in september and I'm still decorating and putting my spaces together. And this, this book, as I've been reading it, it came at the most perfect time, because I just ordered an altar to be delivered. I needed a piece of furniture, and now, as I'm reading the book, I'm like, oh, maybe it should be facing West instead of East, reflecting on some of your words in your book. And how can I, which angle do I want to put it in this room and how do I want to incorporate it into this sacred space?

Speaker 1:

And and so the timing of reading this book was perfect, like I had just ordered the altar and right now my altar is just a cardboard box on the floor with an altar cloth over it, cause that's what I've had to use, right, and so I think one having our audience know like you can make it out of anything a cardboard box is fine, and it's about cultivating the space and the energy within and really bringing in the practice, like coming to that space on a regular basis as a dedication to your own self work. And so I just I definitely as you know, I don't like from, not from an ego place, but as an advanced practitioner, I definitely found bits of wisdom and pieces that I was reflecting on going. Okay, here I'm in a new home, a new space. How do I want to recreate my sanctuary?

Speaker 2:

space. How do I want to recreate my sanctuary? Beautiful? I'm happy to hear that. You know I've had I've so many books on that, all about spirituality and shamanic wisdom. Some are like a thousand page, you know, but ultimately that's what's coming to me, maybe because I'm becoming older and I've been practicing this for a long time. The wisdom within is very simple and we can already resume it in. I could have done a five-page book. People would have probably feel, you know, it's not already good enough? Some people say, oh, your book is too short. I have a few people that said that and it's interesting because to me, in fact, if you take one page, you can work with that one thing for months.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

You know, and sometimes you know, I've had books where it's like I just don't finish them because there's just too many details. I think ultimately, the more simple things are, the more profound they become, and in our world, in the Western world, we feel like no, like a PhD, you know, I need to have like 300 pages about you know the four directions, right, and that's great. Sometimes you might learn more. But I think you'll learn more by having the basics about the four directions and then sitting with it and then seeing which wisdom is going to arise. I didn't want to impose a belief on people.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I want to say here's a tool, implement it, experience what comes for you. And that's the next 50 pages. That's not written, but that's your pages, right? That's your view on it.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I love that, because one of the things I did notice is that you weren't projecting a certain culture or a certain belief anywhere in its pages, and I really respect that. That you can go. Okay, what does the spirit of the East have to say to me? And how do I discover that? Not from pages in a book, but from your own personal practice and meditation and shamanic journey or whatever that looks like for the individual to be welcoming in the spirits of the East, and how does it want to be represented on my altar and what? How does it signify in my own personal life and my own geographical location?

Speaker 1:

And so I I did really recognize that you were just offering almost like teasers of like how does this reflect for you? What could that look like? And I really do appreciate that, because there's so many books and manuals that are like it has to be this way. It's this black or white, right or wrong, there's not anything in between. And yours is more, much more of an invitation to like take this topic and sit with it. Take this topic and sit with it, rather than this is the only way to go, and I'm all about the buffet of options, and I feel like you did a really well job of like how does this land for individuals rather than here's my personal practices and this is the way to do it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you might be, you know, christian, you might be Jewish, you might be Buddhist, you might be pagan, you might be a recovering Christian, you know, whatever it is, I wanted to make sure that you can also reflect what's really important to you. Yes, you know, because I think the heart connection is the most important, it's not the mind, and sometimes when we say, do this and do it that way, we kind of impose a set of you. Now, yes, if you want to study with me the Andean altar and the three world and the four direction in that traditional cosmology, then yes, we can detail it much more, then we can go into that. But it's because you're committing your life, at least you know your path to a very specific tradition, because you're feeling cold to it, know, and there's a space for that for some people, right, but I think, uh, it's important when it comes to spirituality and especially shamanic work.

Speaker 2:

It's a path of self-revelation.

Speaker 2:

It's a path where, you know, my teacher, my elder in peru, doesn't speak much, it doesn't give me long teaching, it puts me in presence of something, it just shares a few words and then it lets me have my own connection, despite it has immense knowledge of that cosmology, and I respect that a lot because that allows me to work at my pace, to not feel like, oh my God, I need to learn all that in order to have a connection or to experience what he's talking about and to make this really alive in me.

Speaker 2:

That's the most important. This is not, you know, shamanic path, is not a sacred book somewhere that tells you do this and that it's such an individual path and at the same time, it's universal. We all have this capacity and I think that's the beauty of it, and I want people to get those nuggets, those gems, from themselves. Yeah, not from, not from me. If you ask me, maybe I'll give you a little pointer, but I'm never going to give you exactly the final answer, because I want you to have the revelation, which is such a gift, when that happened.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, I had a mentor, a teacher, and I was talking to him about the sacred mountain and once again, the very, very short, brief answers come from the wise ones, right? And I'm like, why would you meditate here? And he's like it's a nice mountain. You know, just like this, very simple, basic answers have so much wisdom, even though there could have been a whole novel, you know a whole book written on this particular mountain and its sacredness. And yet it's a nice mountain and I think you know you're sitting at the right feet if they're just giving those one-liner sentences so often. I'm curious about how your sacred space has developed over time from moving to upstate New York. How has it changed from that point to now? As your life has grown? You have a child like. What does that look like for your own personal work and space?

Speaker 2:

wow, I I don't even know what to say, because I feel it's like you know, how did your child change since it was born 20 years ago? What are we talking about? The size and the clothing and the words that he speaks, and you know things like that, right? Uh, for me, there is two aspects that are really important. First, there is the aspect of consistency on the altar, which I think is really important. You can't just mix it up every day completely different, uh, and there are specific reasons for that, for spirits, in order to be able to know who is there, what are you praying for, and you need consistency in your prayer. You need consistency in the way you turn towards that world, so that world turns towards you and recognize you. So that's the one thing that's really important. But, that said, it needs to evolve constantly. It needs to have you know I can't remember we said that. So you need to learn all the rules first and apply them so you can know which rules you can break. Yeah, so you need to practice that for a long time and at some point, you're going to start to know, in this ritual ceremony altar, what is the thing that can be shifted a little bit because it's a full moon, because maybe I lost someone recently, or because there's a new baby in the house. You know what are the things that require that? Maybe the prayer shift, or include something, sometimes temporarily, sometime, you know, moving forward.

Speaker 2:

So when I look at my space today, um, it's very different than it was many years ago, but also it's quite different than when it was a year ago. You know, once a year, um, when it comes to, uh, the winter solstice, so at the end of the year, middle of the winter, when we're in the depth of the darkness and the depths of the roots, it's a time when I changed my altar. Um, for me, it's like the new cycle of the sun. The sun is getting reborn on december 21st and that's the moment where, okay, a new baby needs to be born. I'm in a new cycle for my life, nature is in a new cycle. So what does that mean for my altar? Right? So I will, you know, usually change it the most at that time of the year. There are still a lot of things that are going to be the same, but there is definitely a new configuration.

Speaker 2:

But that requires, for me, I sit for usually over a month before I change that. I pray every day. I know it's coming. I'm starting asking spirit and I wait to have direction. I don't change it because I need to change it. I change it because I'm receiving instruction that maybe a different bone needs to be there, a different feather needs to be there or different plants needs to come. The shape might change.

Speaker 2:

You know what is it? That my new prayer for this new year that is starting, that is coming up in spring, is going to need on the altar, and spirit knows what you need. So I'm going to bring those new elements and very often I was thinking about it. In fact, a few days ago, as I was looking at my altar about something I didn't realize, that I changed, uh, in december last year. But now I just understood and we're what meet august what this element that I put on my altar has shifted into my prayer and why it was necessary for this year to be on there. So sometimes we do the changes because we have guidance. It doesn't mean we understand why fully yet yes, yeah, that's pretty important right right.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I love that invitation to not rush it, like I think some people can approach an altar space as a to-do task rather than a collaboration with spirit and taking your time to really feel into the elements that need to show up and what's the intention of the altar, what's the intention of the prayer, what's the intention of your current life path and and so I love that that there's, that it can take a month, it can take it can take a season before you are ready to change your altar and that's a that's a beautiful invitation, like I wish I. That's a takeaway. I hope our listeners have that. It doesn't have to just be a quick thing.

Speaker 2:

And it should never be a quick six for anything. Any creation you do. You know you create a new class. You want to write a book. You're creating a new song. You're creating a new house, you're creating a new relationship, you're creating a new I don't know land that you're working with.

Speaker 2:

All of this need co-creation, in order to work, meaning creating with you and spirit. That means deepening the relationship, that means communication between those two aspects of the world and the self. And that takes time. You know you want to make sure that the vision is clear and the vision is not informed by just your impulse or belief yes, or fears at worst and it's really coming from somewhere else. And in order to hear the somewhere else, the unknown, the unseen, it requires to slow down a lot. It requires silence, it requires patience. That's the characteristic, that's what we do in the winter, because that's where those energies are very silent. We're in the roots, we're going down. There are many reasons we're doing that in the winter, but that's one of them. And then, when the vision is clear, then, you do it right?

Speaker 2:

Yes, and that's usually much more powerful when I take you know, there's this idea of a new offering I want to do, and I think I've had this idea for probably almost a year now.

Speaker 2:

I think it can during the winter, maybe nine months, right, I'm probably at the end of pregnancy or food is going to be born soon. But I almost did it a few times and started doing it and I was like no, I need to sit more and I could not know why. And every week or every month, I'm getting a little snippet. Hey, you need to do it, it's time, right, but I've been letting it mature and I know that when the offer offering is going to come to birth, when he's going to come into the world and manifested, it's going to be so infused by my dreams, my prayer, my altars, my land, all my intentions, because I've taken the time for that to happen. Any offering that I do just because I have an idea and I start creating it, they don't work. Yeah, they don't work because there's no reflection, there is no connection to the ground, there's no roots to it, right?

Speaker 2:

yes so it's really beyond the altar, I think. Think of yourself as creation, as a creation. How many years it took you to be who you are today, and how many years will it take to be the next version of yourself? Maybe 10 more? Right, we all know we keep evolving. It's very important, especially in a world that is going way too fast for everything and it's too loud, to slow down and be more silent.

Speaker 1:

I love that and I think it reminds me, it brings back this notion of when we plant a seed, we don't get the harvest the next day right. We need to take the time to allow it to evolve, allow it to to come to fruition in its own time, in its own way. And what a beautiful invitation. I think so often, whether you're a spiritual seeker, whether you know or not, we all need to just take more time to slow down and have that contemplative practice. And what does it look like? Like so much of my audience are either busy moms or they're, you know, like business people with the nine to five and they're trying to figure out how to integrate these pieces into their life. And it's just where can you take 10 minutes? Like what, can we take a baby step?

Speaker 1:

to just hit the pause button and when you start cultivating that 10 minutes it can, it can start really blossoming into how can I make folding the laundry or doing the dishes or burping the baby into a spiritual practice Like how can we let it evolve naturally and organically into all of the spaces in our life and how is that going to reflect internally if I approach this and up in peace and with spirit?

Speaker 2:

yeah, don't go plant the seed and scream at the land next day because it's not coming out. Exactly that's what we do with ourselves. We get impatient, we're screaming at our own body, our own land, our own waters, our own emotion. We don't trust that something is unfolding and that's because we don't have the connection to it. We don't truly understand how it works and that connection. But if we deepen the connection, there is a longer exhale.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's possible, and I believe there is more abundance and more things that are being born when we are in that state. You know, it's really true.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. There was a time in my life where I really needed to embrace patience and allowing things to unfold, and I was at a time when I was in a major health crisis and I knew, like, I knew, like I knew that I needed to completely rebuild my gut from ground zero. Rebuild my gut from ground zero and giving my my self permission. This might take a year. This might take. It's not going to be a couple of months, it's not going to be a couple of days, it's not going to be a couple of weeks. I need to give myself all of the grace to allow this unfoldment to happen within my body while I'm doing the spiritual work, while I'm doing the emotional work, and allowing it to take its time so that I could be healthy and whole afterwards.

Speaker 1:

And that's so reflective of so many things in our life. Like how can we allow time? Like last summer I got a divorce and I was very committed. I'm going to take a year just to heal myself, just to allow this process to unfold in preparation for whatever is coming next in my life, my next chapter. And so how can we set an intention and give ourself that space to allow it, allow that time and connection with source, with spirit. And what does that look like? How do you help your students, your client, kind of cultivate the patience, cultivate that. This isn't a rush, this is an unfoldment.

Speaker 2:

Well, there are many practices, but I think first we need to understand why are we doing that? Because I think we have belief that if we do more and if we do it faster, we're going to get more done. That's what we learned and it's very hard to break that belief down to pieces and to really see why it's not entirely true. So in the ancient cosmology of the indies, in the medicine, well, there is a lot of the teaching. Start with the underworld, teaching with the earth, teaching with the womb of the universe, the womb of the belly of the earth. You know, it's like this deeply feminine space of creation. That's literally where everything come from. Everything we see in this world is coming from that place, and that place, as characteristic as it's, a certain technology, there is a certain wheel that turns in a certain ways and once you study that and start to understand that, you understand why slowing down produces more. That's for the western mind. The mind hear that and it's like uh, doesn't make any sense. So usually, if it doesn't make sense to the mind, it's usually a good idea from the shamanic perspective. So you're trying to get beyond the mind, beyond the duality and the perspective of the mind, and then you need to. So. Once you understand how manifestation works, how the energy travel between the different world, under middle and upper are the elements, how the earth, you know, birth the water and then fire, and then the wind and the air, and it creates rains, which are the emotions that feeds the body of the earth back. Once you understand the cycle of energies from an elemental perspective, from a biology perspective, from a physics perspective and from a spiritual perspective, and they all aligned, then you understand how to create, then you understand why you need to slow down, then you understand why to create, then you understand why you need to slow down, then you understand why you need to be silent when you want to write or when you want to do something new, then you understand why it's insanity to do brainstorm as we do when we want new ideas, that there's a very different way to get new ideas, etc. Etc. Etc. And then, once you have understand all of that, you can put in place practices to teach you that Planting a seed is a big one.

Speaker 2:

You know part of my one-year program we spent four months growing one seed, observing it, planting it, finding the right seed, and then we do plant dieters. So we learn from the teacher. The teacher are the plants, the teacher are the animals, the teacher are the plants, the teacher are the animals, the teacher are the elements, and we ask them to teach us and they show us how to remember ourselves, how to return to that process, and because once you have once again that direct experience, then you learn. If it's just me telling you to slow down, you know how many books there is about mindfulness out there and meditation. A billion books. I mean not a billion, but there are probably, you know, tens of thousands of books.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

How many people have read books on mindfulness and still, you know, day-to-day cannot, day to day cannot embody it. And there's great books and great teachers and I'm sure some have transformed people deeply Some of what I'm saying. But I think there are other layers of direct experiencing that can make you change, like growing a seed, for example, or certain rituals. I studied meditation for 10 years and 15 years and I made more progress, sometimes with one ritual in one night, and still I meditate, still. It's important, but I think there is in that technology probably because it's the most ancient technology on Earth shamanic, animist practices, that we all come from tribes, that we all somehow in our DNA, have this deep connection to nature and so, where we can communicate, I think it activates something that is very ancient and maybe through epigenetics, maybe through ancestral memories, maybe through spirit there are many layers to it that I think something gets activated that truly changes us from the core of our beings. And then people are like, yeah, well, instead of doing this brainstorm or this crazy writing about this new project, I did what you said I sat in silence until I heard the direction, and what I heard is so different from anything I've thought about before when it comes to that topic, I think this is it. That's the unseen that speaking. That's the mother speaking. That's the wound speaking. That's before the universe was born speaking. That's the science that's speaking. That's the mother speaking. That's the womb speaking. That's before the universe was born speaking. That's the science that's teaching you.

Speaker 2:

So once you get that experience, there's no return, there's no way back. But you need to have that experience in your life. You need to somehow see that. Okay, what Andrew is saying here is true, which means you need to practice. So if you have a life that's very busy you know we have two kids here and you have a land and have my work, right, I need to create moment of silence because I know it's my place of creation, it's my place of evolution, right, and it's as important as me having a one-hour appointment to the doctor, like it's in my calendar. It's locked. There is no all being with you. Like my kids are not here. You know my wife is not here this one hour. I'm with you.

Speaker 2:

So we need to be very disciplined, and that's the last thing I want to mention. That's often what's missing from our lives Discipline about this work, because the world as it is is very disciplined towards you, not being that. It's disciplined towards you to make you feel a very different way, to make you feel you're lacking, that you're not enough, that you don't know that spirit doesn't exist, that it's all material, blah, blah, blah. This is very disciplined, what's coming towards you. So, if you want to counterbalance that, if you want to find another way, if you believe that maybe this way that I'm witnessing in the world might not be the best way, you need to be disciplined in discovering, studying, exploring, learning, remembering, whatever you want to call it, this ancient way. Yes, you need to make space for it and, like you said, it might be just 10 minutes, but every day 10 minutes, right? Or?

Speaker 1:

do you say?

Speaker 2:

no, I didn't have time this week, didn't brush my teeth, didn't take a shower. I mean, maybe it's possible, don't know right, but it's like it's. It's your internal hygiene. Yeah, it's not just external hygiene, right, you need to just not cleanse your skin and your clothes. You need to cleanse inside. And you don't do that when you have time, all right, you don't take a shower, just if you have time, even if you're in a rush, you can take a five minute shower, right? Yeah, so you need always to think about your internal hygiene.

Speaker 2:

And what can I do in order to make sure this is done? Because, if not, it gets a little bit more dirty. A bit more dirty and it's not as visible. Maybe, as you're not taking a shower, it's not going to smell the same way, right, but within a few weeks, you're going to start feeling this lack of internal hygiene, this lack of discipline, and over months and years of doing that, there are massive costs that are very difficult to change sometime and to heal. So, yeah, for me, it's better to meditate 10 minutes a day than you know having massive panic attack in 10 years from now, or worse maybe than that, if I don't have a calm mind. It's good for my kids, it's good for everyone, right? Not just for me.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think that's oftentimes how we get our clientele or students, like converted is going, you're going to be a better mom or you're going to be a better business person, or whatever it is.

Speaker 1:

If you cultivate this first, it has to come first. You have to put yourself first, you have to make this a priority and do it with dedication and consistency so that it becomes a way of life, so it becomes your breath. And that is such a hard thing for, like Western minds, to concept like, oh, I don't need a people, please, I can put myself first. And and uh, just watching, I'm so many of our, our students, our clients, our, our mothers that are ingrained to be givers and people pleasers and to go. You're worth it, you are worth taking the 10 minutes to do this. Do you have any advice for the people, the listeners out there who are? They're intimidated by the 10 minutes and I think part of it is that they know that, that things are going to shift if they actually say yes to themselves and they're a bit scared of, like, the potential change.

Speaker 2:

I think that's a very big one here. You know, six months ago one of my teachers said there's one thing you could tell the people you walk with but you can't tell them. You really can't thing. You could tell the people you walk with you walk with, but you can't tell them, you really can't. But if you were super honest, what is the main thing you think for the majority? You could say and I say I really sat with it and you say I was like you're lying to yourself.

Speaker 2:

You know that you're hiding from yourself, because when we start sending, when we start doing this work, there is a thing that we have buried that are going to come up and we are often terrified by it because we don't know what we're going to do with that, because we never had to really phase them fully.

Speaker 2:

And also, I think, as we start doing those practices, it might ask us to change many things in our life, right in terms of behavior and belief. I'm not talking just changing your house or your job, I'm talking even just belief and behaviors. There are things that we need maybe to stop doing and when we have habits, it's powerful, it's our ritual, our thoughts, our habitual thoughts. That's your ritual. It's constantly there, it doesn't matter you sit at the altar. You's say constantly there, it doesn't matter, you sit at the altar, you do your prayer, it doesn't matter. You're thinking this, you're thinking that's how? Discipline is your mind, our discipline is the world for you to have those stories. So for me, I think ultimately you know you need that's probably the most important aspect of the work is you need to bring a lot of kindness and compassion towards yourself as you're doing this.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

This is not about fixing something that's broken. This is not about shaming you in where you're at. This is about love, more love towards yourself. Any technique, any ritual, any practice, if it's not rooted from its intention the root of the intention, from love towards yourself or toward other, it's irrelevant. If it's rooted from I'm really a bad mom, or I'm bad at thinking that way, or I'm too stressed and I need to kill my stress, it's not coming from love, it's coming from hate, it's coming from shame, it's coming from self-hatred, you know whatever you want to call it. So, ultimately, that's why I think the techniques are really important, but the intention, why you're doing it and how you're doing it, is way more important.

Speaker 2:

I don't care if you pray for one hour. I'd rather that you send three loving breaths into your body for one minute or two minutes. That will have more effects on your physiology, your biology, your mind, your spirit and your emotion than anything else. It's proven. Mind, your spirit and your emotion than anything else. It's proven Once we shift the mind, the body relaxed, when it's loving, it opens and it has a cascade of hormones and things like that, beyond just the spiritual aspect. Three loving breaths in the morning, or three loving breaths at the end of the day, because we had a terrible day and the kids were really difficult that day and we're exhausted and we feel you know we don't have time to take a shower and you know the house is a mess three loving breath you know that's that's it, but do that, try it see what happens and maybe you're going to cry, that's great.

Speaker 2:

Welcome. The tears right. But loving, loving the grief, loving, whatever is the discomfort in that moment. For me, once you start doing that for yourself first, you know it doesn't just change yourself, it changes the way you accept other people when they are not showing up.

Speaker 2:

Perfect yeah why maybe they don't, you know, they're not available to you, when they're not nice to you, when, whatever, you can have such compassion for a heart that is unhealed, that is blocked, because you're doing it for yourself. You have compassion for your unhealed process, for your unfinished work. But if you're judgmental about that, if you're thinking it needs to be fixed, that's going to be reflected in any relationship, right? My teacher always say it's very easy to love your dog. Anybody can love a dog, but can you love what's unlovable?

Speaker 2:

Can you find your way back to love when someone is really struggling and it looks like they hate you or they're angry at you and they are like this? But can you see the pain, can you see the struggle of that heart and can you send love to that? I'm not saying you don't like, you have to like it. I'm not saying don't have boundary. But can you have this kind of energy towards that person? You can, if you can have it towards yourself. And this is it, this is the work. Yes, unconditional love towards the self. And how do I do that?

Speaker 1:

Yes, absolutely Beautiful words. I'm wondering if you would like to share. How can our audience connect with you? What are your current offerings? Anything that you want to share with our audience? Connect with you. What are your current offerings, anything that you want to share with our audience? Um, so that they can dive deeper with you and your your school sure.

Speaker 2:

I mean they can go on our website. I'm guessing it's going to be put in the link below the podcast or the youtube, but it's the sanctuary likeuary, like a Sanctuary heal H-E-A-Lcom. You can find me, the Sanctuary Angel Deer, on Facebook. So we have an online school where we teach, you know long year program on shamanic work. We also have many on-demand classes so people can do it at their own speed and things like that.

Speaker 2:

Our main core program is my t-shirt that I have today, the Sacred Purpose Blueprint, which is to help people stepping into their sacred calling, and it's targeted especially to people that are overwhelmed or very busy women executives that they have this big life but they know there's something else. So this is our core program. It has some shamanic and spiritual aspect in it, but it also has a lot of core foundation that comes from many different other line of work and, like you mentioned yeah, thanks for mentioning my book, the Sacred Web. It's available on Amazon and many publishers and I have a second book that's going to be called Becoming the Medicine that is coming up in what I used to say september, but I'm going to say november or december. It's coming this year by the end of the year, but I had a new baby a few months ago, so my writing is a bit delayed, but I'm yeah, I'm hoping it's almost finished that it will be on the shelves by december beautiful.

Speaker 1:

well, I'm going to hold that vision for you and we'd love to take a look and read of it so that we can have you back on as a guest. It's been a great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your words and wisdom and until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.