Wisdom Rising

The Science and Spirituality of Crystals for Soul Refinement with Nicholas Pearson

• Christine Renee, Isabel Wells, and Shantel Ochoa • Season 1 • Episode 21

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Join us on a transformative journey into the world of crystal healing with Nicholas Pearson, an acclaimed author and expert in the field. In this episode of the Wisdom Rising podcast, Nicholas shares his remarkable journey, sparked by a childhood gift from his grandfather, that led to a lifelong passion for rocks and minerals. We explore the compelling intersections of science and spirituality, where the unique energies of individual crystals can catalyze profound personal transformation. Nicholas offers fresh perspectives on the power of direct experience in understanding crystals, encouraging listeners to embrace these mystical tools as part of their spiritual practice.

Our conversation delves into the mineral kingdom, decoding the intricate relationships between a crystal's physical properties and its metaphysical attributes. We unravel the symbolism of rocks, casting aside conventional interpretations to explore how external factors shape the characteristics of minerals like hematite and calcite. By emphasizing the individuality of both crystals and humans, we reveal how personal experiences shape our perceptions, challenging popular associations and opening new doors for understanding. Nicholas invites us to consider a relational approach to crystal healing, moving beyond quick fixes to honor the deep wisdom and consciousness embedded within these ancient stones.

Embracing the magic of crystals, we discuss the power of personal data collection in spiritual experiences. Our listeners are empowered to trust their interactions with crystals, cultivating a personal lexicon of spiritual insights that goes beyond traditional scientific validation. By engaging with the sensory aspects of stones, we foster a deeper connection and embrace the transformative potential of these natural elements. Whether you're a seasoned crystal enthusiast or just beginning your journey, this episode promises to enrich your understanding and connection with the mineral world. Join us in exploring the profound wisdom shared on this enlightening path.

Connect with Nicholas:
Website: https://theluminouspearl.com/contact/
Links: https://linktr.ee/theluminouspearl

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
Website: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/moonrisinginstitute
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moonrisingmystics
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moonrising.institute
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@moonrisinginstitute

Book a session with Isabel: https://calendly.com/into-the-deep/schedule

Book a FREE 15 minute connect call with Izzy: https://calendly.com/moonrisinginstitute/connect

Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

Speaker 1:

It's time to remember your divine purpose and limitless potential. Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the official podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine Rene, isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoa as we guide you on a journey of radical self-discovery and spiritual guidance. Each week, we'll dance through the realms of shamanism, mysticism, energy healing and personal development to illuminate your path to true healing and self-sourced wisdom Through weekly inspired conversations and interviews with leading spiritual and shamanic practitioners. We are here to help you acknowledge, reconcile and balance your energy so that you can awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome back to another amazing episode of the Wisdom Rising podcast. I'm your host for today, isabel Wells, and I'm so excited and honored to welcome author and crystal expert Nicholas Pearson to the show.

Speaker 1:

Nicholas has been immersed in all aspects of the mineral kingdom for three decades. As one of the leading voices in crystal healing today, nicholas offers a unique blend of science and spirituality alongside a grounded, practical approach to working with crystals. As one of the leading voices in crystal healing today, nicholas offers a unique blend of science and spirituality alongside a grounded, practical approach to working with crystals. Nicholas is an internationally renowned speaker and the award-winning author of eight books, including Crystal Basics and Stones of the Goddess. Nicholas lives in Orlando, florida, and has come to the show today to talk about how we can bridge the gap between science and spirituality by blending the science-based wisdom of the earth sciences with the spiritual, practical data that we have from personal experiences and anecdotes working with crystals Along the way. He talks about the three aspects of crystals that we should take into account when choosing which one to work with. How an individual piece of crystal, like two different pieces of quartz, will have its own energy and intention in your work together. How we can view crystals as catalysts, the heart as a mirror and the idea of soul refinement as pieces in the puzzle of creating an effective crystal healing practice. We also talk about the idea of using your personal experiences with crystals as data collection when science often fails us in quote-unquote, proving the effects of working with crystals.

Speaker 1:

Although it sounds like this episode takes on a scientific bend, nicholas has a knack for bridging the gap between science and spirituality, connecting us with our souls and the truth, and using metaphor as a way to connect us with our own internal experiences and intuition when it comes to working with crystals. So, if you've been interested in a more in-depth view of how to bring crystals into your practice, or you want to know more about how to work with the crystals? That will both support you in a gentle way and lead you to ask the deeper questions and do deeper personal transformational work, then this episode is for you. If you're interested in connecting with Nicholas outside of this episode, you can find him at the Luminous Pearl. All of his links are in the show notes and before you dive in to today's episode, don't forget to like, subscribe and follow the podcast so that you can get access to new episodes sooner. Be sure to follow us at Moon Rising Institute wherever you are on social media to stay up to date on all things Moon Rising, shamanic Institute and the Wisdom Rising Podcast.

Speaker 1:

So, without further ado, let's dive in to today's episode. Welcome back to the Wisdom Rising Podcast, nicholas. I am so excited to be sharing space with you today. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Speaker 2:

It is my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me, Isabel.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited about our conversation today. We've got some really brilliant jumping off points and I know quite a few of our audience members are familiar with your work, but for those of you who don't know you, I'd love to just start with a little bit about you. Can you explain in your own words how you got to where you are today?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. I think probably like the shortest version of my bio begins with the sentence I really like rocks and I always have. I was definitely like the stereotype of the little kid who picked up little pebbles everywhere. I mean everywhere Exotic locations that we went to on family vacations in the summertime, gravel driveways, landscaping, I mean, you name it. I just I had this fascination for all things rock and gem. My grandmother collected vintage turquoise jewelry and I was so fascinated with how no two stones were alike even though they were the same. There was just a kind of poetry in stone. And at the ripe old age of eight my grandfather gifted me my very first piece of quartz.

Speaker 2:

Retrospect, I know a lot more about that rock today than I did back then, but it was like holding a piece of a fairy tale, like this object was like magic solidified, and I was always a really curious kid, so it wasn't enough to just have rocks, I had to know everything about them. I liked to know a little bit about as much as possible in life in general. That's kind of one of my guideposts, if you will. And my father and I spent weekends in the library when most families went to church. So, um, you know, one week I might be brushing up on Egyptian mythology and the next it might be marine biology, but one of the most interesting things that I would stumble across was an intersection of several of my loves um, in in this like realm of all things rock and mineral, geoscience, earth science, as well as the kind of folkloric, mythological side. I saw those come together in the world of crystal healing and what really fascinated me about that is it wasn't just a historic practice that I was reading about in medieval manuscripts and vestiges of late antiquity and earlier, but it was a living, breathing practice and that people were incorporating new gems into what they did on a continuous basis. So as a teenager I just kind of immersed myself in that realm and really started to cultivate my own experiences with stones.

Speaker 2:

I've always had a penchant for finding the weird and unusual rocks, things I can't find in books, especially things I couldn't find in books back then, and my only way to discover how I might work with them was through, like, my own primary experience. I need to kind of tune in and settle the mind and, you know, from there the doors open to other things. I've, I've, I've dabbled in a lot, I've committed myself to even more realms, more things in like the kind of mystical realms. Generally speaking, meditation and mindfulness and energy medicine, um, uh, all kinds of things that are kind of tangential to my main foci. And as a senior in high school I started teaching workshops on crystal healing and that just kind of opened the door to making new connections. That led me to studying with my very first Reiki teacher a few years later in 2006. And both of those are praxis that are like really core to my everyday life.

Speaker 2:

I consider a lot of what I do focused on education. So those early days of teaching, although they were harrowing as an 18-year-old, now it's like the most rewarding part of what I do, whether I'm doing like informal Q&A online or having conversations like this, or whether it's a very formal, rigid, structured seminar and formal and rigid and structured we're going to say they're relative terms because I always try to meet people where they're at. And over the years I've been really lucky. I got a chance to work in the earth science field when I studied at university Originally. When I studied at university Originally, I went to study music and ended up in the earth science world when the music program wasn't great for my mental health and it was just incredible to work with this massive mineral collection one of the largest in the southeastern US and it helped me really learn to look for patterns to see that, wow, all of these things that have this similar kind of energetic principle or evoke a similar feeling in me are rich in iron, or you know things that work in this way all belong to the same crystal system. Or you know, here we are with these really soft, subtle energies that are really soothing and turns out they all have traces of lithium in them. So I saw those patterns kind of emerge organically and then I began to look for them more intentionally, and that's been a big part of why I'm such a big proponent of learning at least a little bit of mineral science.

Speaker 2:

We don't all have to be geochemists and geophysicists. I'm definitely not either of those things and do not aspire to be geochemists and geophysicists. I'm definitely not either of those things and do not aspire to be. But learning a little bit of the scientific language around crystals helps us really appreciate what they offer to us, and that same kind of we'll say rigor is something I try to bring to everything that I do, whether it is meta-analysis of historical information, try to look for patterns among primary resources and secondary and tertiary resources in the crystal world and it's also something I apply to Reiki looking for greater patterns and how the many branches of the Reiki family tree stem from common ancestors, seeing how praxis have evolved through a very long game of telephone over the years, and I have this inquiring mind that never shuts up. So I try to put it to really good use.

Speaker 1:

I think it's really beautiful the way that you're able to bring that scholarly attitude towards spirituality, because I think that perspective can bring in so much a wealth of knowledge into our perception of spiritual techniques and practices that have been, you know, existing for millennia and yet now we're finally starting to get to a point where at least little bits of science can catch up a little bit. And I really resonated with what you said about teaching so young. I started teaching shamanism when I was 19. And that again, that depth of experience, really informed how I teach today and it was such a throw you to the wolves kind of moment where you dive into the deep end. But it was so valuable.

Speaker 1:

And one of the things that stood out to me was the idea that you were saying about these patterns that you see and how the minerals and the rocks and the crystals make you feel and how you could see on an energetic level that those experiences were true. And when you looked at the science, you could find that pattern there as well. And that's something that we've been exploring recently on the podcast in our conversations about shamanism and animism in particular, is this idea that everything has energy to it and life to it and we can find that in our own ways. Some people don't need the science to be able to understand or quote unquote believe it, and some people find a lot of comfort and wisdom in approaching it from a scientific aspect. So I love that you were bringing that forward and I'm curious because you had mentioned having that kind of baseline scientific knowledge of crystals and minerals. I'm curious if there's any foundational knowledge that you'd love to give our listeners to serve as a platform for the rest of this conversation.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think like the shortest treatment of it that I can give is that, especially when it comes to rocks and minerals, there are patterns we can see when we observe three primary things about a crystal's we'll say natural history, its life story, life in air, quotes that help us get a clearer window, better insight into what they offer energetically. And those things are its formation process, which is kind of like the foundational level at which it impacts us, like the, the. The most intimate way that it touches us is generally through whether something is igneous, metamorphic, sedimentary or complicated. We'll just, we'll just group everything else under a separate umbrella. We can also see that the general direction of focus, not just how it reaches us but the way it presents itself, is going to be through its crystal structure or, in some cases, the lack thereof. So we get these seven different crystal systems that describe the organization, spatially speaking, of the ingredients that are in that mineral and the kind of symmetries that are in them. And you know, it's the language of geometry and symbolism, just in a very, very, very tiny form, and so we can see some parallels. For folks who study things like sacred geometry or symbology, you're going to see some of that echoed in there.

Speaker 2:

And then the specificity of a crystal's action. The specificity of a crystal's action why does hematite feel different to calcite? If they're probably formed in similar environments and have the same crystal system? It's because they're made out of different things. So every line item in the chemical formula is also a clue about what a crystal has to offer to us. And then rocks are a little bit more complex, but also a clue about what a crystal has to offer to us. And then you know rocks are a little bit more complex but also a little bit more forgiving because they're mixtures of minerals. You can have rocks that are fairly simple, like your average piece of limestone is almost entirely calcite, calcium carbonate. Of course there can be plenty of other things also present. Your average piece of quartzite is mostly quartz it's in the name. But then you get things like granodiorite or nysechmetagranate and all kinds of things.

Speaker 2:

They get longer names and what they're made out of can get a lot more nuanced. We don't necessarily have to be able to identify all of that, but in really broad strokes we can see patterns for things that are silica-rich versus oxide-rich versus carbonate-rich, if they form an environment where molten rock is cooling slowly over time versus very rapidly when it's extruded. Those also, they speak a kind of language of symbolism that help us paint a picture of what a crystal does, and when we look through that lens we get so much more understanding about how crystals show up for us. When we learn about their life cycle, we understand how it affects our life cycle, and that's way more informative than the kind of reductive approach to let's put a green crystal on the heart chakra, because there are plenty of other things about a crystal that inform its energy.

Speaker 2:

I had a mentor in the crystal world who very firmly believed that color only reflects about one fourteenth of what a crystal does. She quantified it. I don't entirely know how she arrived at that quantification, but it immediately struck a chord with me and I was like, yeah, that makes sense. That makes a whole lot of sense. And she also had a science background and really loved to look at the geology of rocks, so we were a good match and it is a helpful doorway in. If all we've got is color, use that, but be open to that not being enough, and when you become hungry for more, you'll start to see the patterns too.

Speaker 1:

So one question that comes to mind with this that I'm sure some of our listeners are curious about as well is obviously there are books like I think it's Judith Hall who wrote the Crystal Bible and those kinds of books that are these collections of rocks and what they quote unquote do. I'm really curious. With your scientific background, how often do the descriptions of what crystals do in those kinds of books align with what you see in your own practice?

Speaker 2:

So there are a few layers to this question that I think are worthy of kind of taking into account. First and foremost, if we're looking through Judy's Crystal Bible series and we see what she says about something like chiastolite or fluorite or selenite, one thing we have to bear in mind is that the exact piece of fluorite she's holding is not the exact same piece of fluorite that I'm holding. So when she's collecting her experiences, when she's filtering her personal gnosis onto that piece of paper, we have to remember that the stones are not alike and also we're not alike. There's going to be a lot of overlap. I mean, humans are basically humans. No matter where you are in the world and wherever you are in history. There are a few kind of pretty universal things about us, and the same is true for minerals. Fluorite always has the same chemical composition and crystal structure. It's always going to form in similar kinds of environments. There's some range there, but it can have accessory minerals. It can have chromophores, color centers, things that are little aberrations in the crystal structure that account for the wide range of color and texture and other kinds of things we're going to see. So we do have to bear in mind there's a little bit of individuation going on. The other thing that is really helpful to remember is that the same therapeutic mechanism applied to two different sets of life circumstances yield different superficial results.

Speaker 2:

Maybe said another way, let's take an example like rose quartz. A lot of people write about rose quartz as the love stone, except they only started doing that in the mid-1980s. The earliest use we have in human history of rose quartz for anything remotely spiritual goes back to about 7,000 BCE. So for the majority of human in history we didn't make this association, which is not to say that it's wrong, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to everything Rose Quartz does. So if we look at the end result, a lot of people effectively work with Rose Quartz to bring about more love in their lives.

Speaker 2:

But if we look at you know the kind of geology underneath it, the kind of deeper gnosis we get from decoding this, one of the things that becomes apparent is that rose quartz helps us with unexpressed emotional patterns. That doesn't necessarily mean bad things that we sweep under the rug. How many times in our lives do we have joy we don't get to effectively put out there because there's too much going on or we want to show up for someone else, or we prioritize someone's needs ahead of our own, or you know so many other things can be going on. We don't believe it's true. It's too good to be true. So, you know, we just put it on a shelf and come back to it later. That joy takes up space if it doesn't get out into the world. The same way grief or fear or anything else can.

Speaker 2:

And Rose Quartz doesn't really work directly in the sense of love as an emotional kind of pattern. Rose Quartz is tuned into this idea that love is a cosmic phenomenon, it is a force that flows through the universe and if we are full of other gunk, those unexpressed emotions, there's no room for that love to flow through us. So by helping express those patterns we can clearly feel that kind of cosmic love. And that love takes so many different forms. We can express it individually in our lives as platonic love, familial love, romantic love and so on and so forth. So for some of us we're going to feel maybe the more kind of purgative effects of rose quartz, because it's the buildup that is the most palpable to us. In other cases what we're going to feel is maybe a sense of joy and freedom. In other cases we're going to clear up so much baggage about relationships that there's room for a new one to come in, so we can see how three different end results could be possible from the same function in this stone. So when we are looking at all of these different books that talk about crystal properties I have a few hundred of them behind me because I'm a nerd Um, I love the game of meta analysis.

Speaker 2:

Um, and it's just. It's really just looking at everyone's experiences and looking for a pattern to emerge. And I guarantee, if you look at enough data points, you start to see a pattern emerge. Even when, superficially, what this author says here and that author says there don't have a lot in common. When we get more points on the graph, we start to see it take shape. So that's one of my favorite games to do. Anytime I'm looking at something new and unusual, something new from iCollection, I get my primary experience first, then I look at its geology and make some educated guesses about how those primary experiences and the makeup and structure and formation of that stone might be related, and then I like to compare it to what other people have to say. If I do it the other way around. It's going to bias my impression of it. I'm going to have an expectation and I like to show up with as few expectations as possible.

Speaker 1:

That's something that we really try to teach to our students as well, because obviously one of the foundations of our practice at Moon Rising is shamanism, and shamanism very much is this spiritual thought that's based on direct experience and direct revelation.

Speaker 1:

And so, for example, we just had a podcast come out on Monday which I encourage everyone to listen to if they haven't on spirit animals and how there are so many, like you're saying, with crystals, there are so many different meanings of a single spirit animal, where we have almost that archetype or that foundational quote-unquote meaning of the animal, but then it's going to mean so much more depending on the person that it shows up to and how.

Speaker 1:

It's so important to be able to go in and have your own experience first, before then Googling or reading books or asking other people, because it is going to bias and shift your perspective a little bit, and I think that's a really fantastic way to encourage that almost self-sourced wisdom of being able to come back to our intuition and our own inherent knowing, because so often, as someone who has a science background as well, I find that when we're so focused on science, it can often lead us to wanting those cold, hard facts before we start believing something, and while in some cases that can be useful, I find that for spiritual seeking, that ability to go inside yourself and look at what did it mean to me first, and then can I see that corroborated in external information and is there an additional layer of depth that I can get from that research?

Speaker 1:

It adds so much personal connection to what you're learning about and what you're experiencing. And so in that I'm curious because you had talked about how there are people who experience a lot of direct connections with rose quartz in terms of loving connections and you were sharing how part of it is because it clears away the gunk and I love that analogy. But I'm curious as well. We had another crystal expert on the show about a year ago, I would say, and she talked about how much she believes intention impacts your connection with crystals. I'm curious if you see that in your, your own practice.

Speaker 2:

So you know, our kind of modern metaphysical milieu is is really um. I'm impacted by this idea that intention is the most important ingredient, and I think it's an important ingredient. It's certainly not the most. No matter what I intend, if I don't ever follow up on the work, the work isn't getting done. So if I intend for Rose Quartz to bring me love or romance or healing or anything else but that's where I stop. Or anything else, but that's where I stop, because I believe there is some level of scientific basis for crystal energy. I at least see models in crystals that could be metaphors for how the metaphysics of it works. Something is going on in the background, absolutely it's. It's kind of like when you need to do your taxes, I can, I can choose an accountant and intend for them to do the work, but if I don't actually show up with all the receipts and all of the income and all of the documents, they're not getting done. So, yeah, intention is important because it helps us steer the ship, but if all we have is intention, all we have is a steering wheel, we got to have the vehicle through which we do the work. We have to have the fuel that powers that which is going to come through our focus, our follow through, the real world actions that we take with that, the experience that we develop through, you know, just cultivating relationship with our tool or our practice. So intention is something I think we might overuse, we oversimplify, and that's because, in part, we live in a very memified world, right, it's so easy to see the inspirational quote or the chakra diagram that has seven crystals on it, or the meme that's got your astrology sign and three crystals, and then you rush out and you buy those three things and it's going to solve all the problems in your life. But then we're not really asking what is the problem I'm trying to solve, even if we forget the intention bit, if we do the soul searching part, if we start to ask why and how, what is the work I'm really trying to do with rose quartz? Or, even before we settle on rose quartz, what is the work I'm really trying to do? And then, how did I get to this point? What is the specific obstacle? What is the outcome? I see, if I can surmount this obstacle, then we try to match that picture to the crystal that tells the same story, this obstacle, then we try to match that picture to the crystal that tells the same story. We get way more out of that than just saying, oh, I feel kind of down today, let's pick some rose quartz and I'm going to intend that it makes me better. It probably will. Is that the placebo effect? Is that crystal energy I don't think it's an either or situation but through like really sincere cultivation of relationship is where we, we get the most outcome.

Speaker 2:

And I imagine that you see the same thing in you know, kind of shamanic cosmology, like we have to show up for those spirit relationships. We don't just, you know, it's not something that we can just choose off the internet and say okay, fox, you're my new spirit, go fix my life. We got to put in work, and it's the same with our crystals. I really believe, as much as I am wearing the science hat so many hours of the day, I believe in an unspirited world. I believe in a world that is more than human in terms of consciousness, not just human, and we ought to be willing and able to surrender to that, to show up for that relationally, reciprocally.

Speaker 2:

And sometimes that looks really boring, sometimes that's sitting in stillness just trying to get an impression of a crystal's energy or spirit or consciousness, or however we want to conceive of that, depending on our own kind of view of the spiritual landscape around us and within us. And it's really imperative that when we do that, we try to release expectation, we try to release attachment, and those are the pieces that drive intention right. When we settle on, intention is everything we are setting ourselves up to be attached to a particular outcome, and that can be useful. But also that crystal is a lot older than us. The network of energy that it's part of has existed long before our body came into shape, before we came into this form. It probably knows a thing or two about a situation like this that we couldn't dream of. So if I, if I open the door to being pleasantly surprised sometimes unpleasantly surprised, but usually pleasantly then there's more magic that comes out of that. So use intention as a starting point, but we can't tie ourselves to that or we lose so much.

Speaker 1:

No, and I really appreciate you bringing forward that perspective. We did a series of reels on Instagram a few weeks ago where it was 10 things we wish we had known when we started our spiritual journey, and one of them was that idea that crystals aren't going to work the way that you want them to right In air quotes unless you're showing up and doing the work. And it's something that I find a lot in the crystal community and it's part of why I appreciate your work so much is that I see this tendency to and it's absolutely an inherent part of our human psychology right this need and desire to have something be easy and, instead of looking at the pain and going into it, or going into the fear or anxiety or whatever it is you're dealing with, to turn away from it and say, oh look, it's healed now because I can't see it anymore. And I find that that can sometimes be our first go-to when we reach for a crystal. Is this idea that, oh, I'm anxious, I'll grab an amethyst. Oh, I need more love in my life, I'll grab a rose quartz. And, like you're saying, while it can be effective, they each have so much more depth to what wisdom they have to offer and what medicine they have to offer. And, from a shamanic perspective, we bring in that idea of honoring all things. And sometimes I look at the rocks and the minerals and the crystals that we use and think about how are we honoring them when we just grab a rose quartz for love or an amethyst for anxiety, when they have so much more to them, like you were saying, and if we allow ourselves to use them as a catalyst for that deeper work and for asking those questions and looking at, okay, maybe you grab an amphis to start because it's going to help you feel better, but then can you take it that next step further and start to ask those questions about why is this anxiety coming up?

Speaker 1:

Why is this the emotion? What is it that you're hoping to achieve with this amphis? And what haven't you looked at so far in order to take what we call a lot of times here on the show inspired action to keep things moving forward, so that you're not just applying a bandaid and calling it good, which sometimes we need to right. I'm going to kind of put that caveat on here. Sometimes we do just need a quick fix and something to feel comforted and supported, but when we have that bandwidth and that capacity to be able to bring in those deeper questions. I think that's really where the true healing and transformation comes through.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there are two parts of that I'd love to kind of delve into. One of them is like the notion of crystals as catalysts. So for those out there listening who maybe haven't really thought about what a catalyst is like definitively, a catalyst is like. Definitively, a catalyst is something that lessens the amount of effort or energy required to achieve an outcome. So you know, we have catalysts all through our body. They're usually made out of little proteins that bind to other things that lessen the amount of metabolic energy we need for cellular metabolism and other kinds of stuff. But catalysts exist in all forms and the important part of this is they lower the amount of energy. They don't remove the amount of energy required. They don't do it for us.

Speaker 2:

I think a really good metaphor that I use frequently is like the crystal is like your gym membership. You can buy the crystal, you can pay for the gym membership, but if you don't go to the gym, nothing changes. If you don't show up and do the work with the crystal, if you don't actually work on yourself, nothing changes. You just get to say, oh, I have this great new amethyst or I have this membership to like a really fancy gym, and then all you're doing is talking about the membership instead of actually showing up and working out or showing up and, you know, doing whatever you need for your well-being. So yeah, that catalyst part is really important because it doesn't decentralize the focus from the work, but it reminds us that when we find the right tool, the right work, they fit together, kind of like lock and key, and even if it's not a perfect fit, any fit is better than no fit and that's certainly useful. And then the other bit about this is, you know, sometimes we do need, you know, the gentle kind of band-aid effect.

Speaker 2:

When I was studying a practice called gemstone energy medicine gem therapy it's also referred to, although other things also get called by that title One of the principles that really got hammered into me was nourish before release. We can't be expected to do the big, deep, terrifying changes if we just don't have the wherewithal, the reserves of energy to do that. So oftentimes we enter healing because of a depletion of something in our lives psychologically, spiritually, maybe physically, whatever it might be. So we have to restore something that is depleted before we can expect to do deeper change. So it is absolutely okay to go out and reach for that crystal that feels like it's a superficial match or feels like we're treating symptoms energetically speaking. That is perfectly fine, but it's how we think about doing that. It's not just okay. The rose quartz is going to fix my problem. It's.

Speaker 2:

I've intentionally chosen this rose quartz and I'm showing up with my rose quartz and maybe it's just for the warm and fuzzy vibes, like maybe that is the only reason you've chosen it, because every time you pick up rose quartz it makes you feel warm and fuzzy and you just need that today. That is actually a really good indicator that you've got some kind of resonance, this kind of inharmonic vibration going on between you and the stone, and that's wonderful. What we often neglect is what comes after that, which feels decidedly less warm and fuzzy. And so you know, when we are starting with crystals and we lean into this bit about intentionality, we get kind of reductive about their colors and their correspondences and stuff. That's all well and good. We got to start somewhere. But it's when we subscribe to the idea that the crystals that are good for us always feel good. We really lose a lot there too, because some of the most profound healing that I've ever experienced on my personal journey with stones has felt anything but warm and fuzzy.

Speaker 2:

I joke, but it's not a joke at all, that I became a writer because of obsidian. We're having this conversation because of a piece of obsidian that went in my pocket. One because I had a clever idea and I wanted to write about it, but also two because it kicked my butt and I recorded the process of it kicking my butt and synthesized and extrapolated from that to produce the first chapter of my first book, the Seven Arctiple Stones. And it was a lot and it felt good because I was prepared to do that work even though in the moment it was uncomfortable. And then came chapter two of that book with jade and I'm like oh, jade's a warm and fuzzy stone. Everybody loves jade, anything but for me.

Speaker 2:

So how crystals show up for us is kind of individuated in as much that the warm and fuzzy crystals often reflect a theme, um a lesson that our, our soul has observed, that we've somehow integrated one one way or the other. If we believe in many incarnations, maybe we've done it before and we don't need as much work doing it this time around. Whatever your vision of that might be, just go with that. But it's the crystals that feel really uncomfortable. They reflect some kind of healing quality, some chapter of our soul's journey that hasn't been written yet, that is alien to us, and so the discomfort can be a sign of some really profound shifts. I'm not suggesting that. If, like me, the first time you really sit down with some good quality lapis, it makes you just feel terrible that you should not go out and buy 10 pounds of it, strap it to your body and attempt to go about your normal life. Um, one, you will look funny and two, you will feel awful. Like use those nourishing stones to set you up for the harder work and then like pace yourself at that harder work. Um, I, I went through a phase where, ironically, we keep talking about Rose Quartz.

Speaker 2:

It's been a theme this week, um, talking with some other colleagues as well. I really never cared much for it and it never did a whole lot for me until I reached a plateau with one of my really deep personal mineral allies. It's like I could wear rhodonite and all of a sudden it was like rhodonite did nothing for me anymore. I think, just energetically we reached a plateau of what we could do unless I could take a break and reset, and it was Rose Quartz that offered me this wonderful reset. I spent like a solid month barely touching my Rodenite and every single day going to Rose Quartz, thinking well, it's bound to do something right. And it was a really profound experience for me, and an unexpected one because I had it grouped. A really profound experience for me and an unexpected one because I had it grouped in that box of basic crystals and I like the weird ones and I have this newfound appreciation for it that's still there resiliently, two years later.

Speaker 1:

I think that ability to recognize those moments where, almost like our journey, comes full circle right, you were talking about how your grandfather gave you your first piece of quartz and obviously quartz is one of those you know, quote unquote basic crystals, and I love those moments where we circle back to those things and find a new depth and meaning to them. But one of the things that you said that really stuck out to me was that idea of nourish and release, and I've been reflecting a lot on, as we step into autumn here in the States, how trees will they absorb the nutrients from the leaves before they let them go? And you were speaking about, you know, finding patterns in nature and how everything connects, and that's one of the ways that you know, I think we hear that phrase as above, so below, as within, so without, so often. But it's when we see those moments like that of how it connects and how that idea of nourish and then release, we can actually see that happening in nature. And so obviously it's part of us, right, because we are nature. And it was reminding me too of how there's this idea of, you know, trying to find cosmic balance.

Speaker 1:

And I think, when we look at that from a scientific perspective, especially in physiology, we see homeostasis, right, our body always wants to come back to that state of balance, and one of the analogies that my students hear me talk about a lot is that if we think of our souls right, this is a very metaphorical cosmology I'm about to present here.

Speaker 1:

But if we think of our souls, as you know, there was this one big mirror that was spirit, source, universe, god, whatever you want to call it and it kind of gets shattered into a million pieces, and each of those little pieces are a soul or a spirit, right, obviously all very rudimentary and metaphorical, but each one of those is going to have some kind of jagged edges or a piece that seems like it's missing, and in order to bring that back to wholeness, those jagged edges are going to have to be sanded away and the pieces that are missing are going to have to be stretched.

Speaker 1:

And so sometimes, when we're looking for the lessons that are going to allow us to find that wholeness or to expand into that full state, it is going to be uncomfortable because they're going to have to have, you know, that sanding and that friction or that state of stretching and thinking about how those energies that we see in crystals. Like you were saying, we can absolutely have those nourishing supporters who can help us through the process and kind of lift our energy up so that we have the capacity to be able to be stretched and to be able to be sanded away, but that if we spend our lives kind of turning away from the ones that actually do the sanding or the stretching, there's an element to that that we're going to miss, and I love that you brought that forward.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this idea of refinement is one that I see echoed in a lot of my work. Whether it's the kind of cliche at this point, growth happens outside our comfort zone, but there's this metaphor of the heart as mirror that I really love, and there are some really, we'll say, exacting teachers in the mineral world that can really help us focus on the heart as mirror, obsidian being one of them. It is so reflective, has been used to make mirrors and and similar tools, and in far-off places that certainly couldn't have shared technology, um, and even in, like the system of reiki, um, one of the, the waka, the, the poems of the meiji emperor that are are chosen for self-reflection, that there's one called kagami, or mirror. I think I can do this. The poem goes something like this in Japanese, and I'm going to butcher the translation here, but it's something to the effect remembering. Of course, this is the emperor writing, so it's from his perspective that, like, even in the humblest of people we see reflected the mirror of their own hearts, or reminds us to do the same work. It doesn't matter what station someone is in life when they reflect their true self, it reminds us we got to do the same thing.

Speaker 2:

So that idea of just showing up, I think, is a big part of it. And you know, intending to show up and showing up are not always the same. There are days the only thing we've got, the only amount of bandwidth we can handle is the intending part. Give yourself grace on those days. You deserve it. But then, like when you've done the nourishing part, maybe show up even when it's uncomfortable and our journeys are so rich and varied that that's going to take a different shape for each of us, even on different days of the week.

Speaker 2:

So in our Reiki practice, maybe that reflecting of the heart is meditating on the precepts. Maybe it's just doing our hands-on practice. Maybe it's doing the deeper parts of it in our crystal practice, maybe that's just trying to stay grounded when life is moving by too quickly. Maybe it's strengthening your resolve to have greater bandwidth for whatever the next step of your healing process looks like. Maybe it's showing up for your community and beyond in so many different ways. But I really love this idea of like, refinement of the soul, and this image of the mirror is one I come to over and over again.

Speaker 1:

And it's such a good way of reminding ourselves too that, just like again that idea of nourish and release, there's this idea in nature too that we have to be able to pull in nutrients before we can give it back to the community or back to the other plants or animals or what have you, and I think crystals can also give us that reminder as well, or this idea of the heart as mirror of understanding that it's only when we are showing up for ourselves and allowing ourselves to be nourished and refined and, like you were saying, show your true self, that then it can be reflected back. But we have to be able to stand in our own experience and honor that knowing, that part of honoring that is doing the work and is showing up and asking the hard questions and when you can right gently with yourself, but when you can showing up even in the discomfort.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful. So one of the things that I wanted to make sure we touch on that you had spoken about towards the beginning of our conversation was this idea of data collection and how we have you know, we have so much empirical evidence and we can do our meta-analyses and all of these things but that this idea of direct revelation or direct experience when it comes to working with crystals can you share a little bit more about that?

Speaker 2:

it comes to working with crystals. Can you share a little bit more about that? Yeah, so you know, a question that I get from time to time is like where are the studies that prove that crystals do their thing? And like there aren't any, like just transparently, there aren't any. Do we have things that are not peer reviewed, that have been performed by people with fancy degrees and institutional backing? Yes, I could cite a couple. They're not super helpful to us because they just they aren't enough, they aren't big enough, they're too specialized, they're too focused. There are also plenty that are similarly anecdotal, that demonstrate a more placebo effect than anything else, which we also see in pharmaceuticals. I mean, there are things out there that don't perform any better than placebos. So that's not a helpful dialogue either, but what is is demystifying and also like decentralizing where data has to come from.

Speaker 2:

We don't have to outsource the data collection to someone else. Theoretically, if someone writing a book on crystals has really done their job, they have collected their experiences, whether they've observed phenomena by working with clients, meditated with crystals over time and seen patterns emerge, studied the written record, the historical record, to find similar data points. That's it. That's data collection when we work in our own lives. The internal changes that we feel are qualitative data. We can't necessarily measure them in numbers. We could assign an arbitrary scale and, you know, do all the things that scientists have to do to get things published and funded. And you know, do all the things that scientists have to do to get things published and funded, and you know, peer reviewed and all that stuff. But we don't really have to go there. So I really like to empower people to go collect their own data. Like, of course, I write crystal books. Please buy crystal books. That'd be great. But don't outsource your ability to do the same thing. Use those as guides, as signposts, that kind of point you in the right direction that say, hey, maybe char weight could be a better fit for this than citrine, but why don't you sit down and have that experience? And how we collect that data doesn't necessarily have to look really rigid and structured and clinical and sanitary, like it's allowed to be messy, because real life is messy and all too often those really heavily controlled lab environments get complicated when we take something that was proven there and have to apply it to real life. So the general guidepost that I give people on this is sit with the same stone repeatedly. Sit with the same stone on good days and bad days. Sit with the same stone when you have like this, stick with it-ness to do it and try it on a day when you sure don't, and just see what happens.

Speaker 2:

In a perfect world, of course, we'd write all of these things down. We want to note, maybe, how the external stuff, how does the stone feel to us, what shows up, but also, like, take inventory before, during and after. Do you feel more organized inside? Is there less background noise when you hold onto some fluorite? Do you feel you know a sense of hope when you hold on to something like celestite or sapphire? We got to do this repeatedly with the same stone, preferably the exact same piece, so we get a clear picture and understanding of that one and then we can start to introduce more variables.

Speaker 2:

So if you have only ever meditated with the same clear quartz sphere, maybe pick up an unpolished point of it and see how that is the same and different and then go okay, well, there's quartz for me. What happens if I take some other variation on quartz, like citrine or amethyst or smoky quartz or jasper or agate, and what is the same and what is different, and just be open. There could be a lot that is different. There could be. You know what is the same and what is different and just just be open. There could be a lot that is different. There could be a lot that's the same. Um, and the more we do these kind of contemplative exercises, I give some guidelines for what I call a crystal contemplation and crystal visualization techniques in um my, my definitive book, crystal basics, which came out in 2020. It's it's the big one, not the pocket encycl.

Speaker 2:

But if you do those kinds of exercises in the foundational techniques chapter and the crystal meditations chapter, over and over with the same stone and different stones and it's necessary to do both we start to build our own lexicon of energy, our own lexicon of spiritual experience, and that's rooted in the raw data we've collected. Your internal experience is qualitative data, end of story. Like, we don't have to, like, put data on a pedestal that only, like, the specialized few are allowed to collect, because, like, if you need fancy degrees from institutions, then I don't qualify. My data isn't real and neither is the majority of people I'm assuming that are going to be listening, and that really disempowers us and you know, this is a thing we see in academia all the time, where it's that you know, publish or perish kind of thing, where people are like arbitrarily going out and collecting data on things that may not matter to their real life, or they might, they could be super passionate, or it could just be the only thing they got a grant for. If they don't do it, they're not relevant and they don't keep their jobs. And when we kind of put this sense of urgency behind it, it can skew things, it can take them out of the real world, and I'd much rather see all the messy, uncontrollable variables aside. I'd rather see what happens in my own life, in the lives of my loved ones, the lives of my students, when they just trust that they're worthy enough to have the same kind of experience.

Speaker 2:

The only real difference between the people writing the books and the people who aren't when it comes to crystals is that some of them got publishing deals. Maybe some of them have been doing it a long time. I've been collecting a little over 30 years now. I've been teaching more than 20. But ultimately I'm just showing up for my practice. This reminds me of an expression we say a lot in the earth science field. The best geologist is not the one with the fanciest degree or the best equipment. It's the one that's touched the most rocks. The best crystal healer isn't the one that has the fancy certificate and the most expensive crystal collection. It's the one who's gone out and touched the most rocks and allowed those rocks to touch them back at the soul level, at the psychic level, at the spiritual level at the psychic level, at the spiritual level.

Speaker 1:

That's really incredibly well put because I mean, like you were saying, life experience, those healing moments. They don't happen in a laboratory right. They don't happen in this perfectly pristine environment where all of the variables are controlled. They happen in life, in daily life, where things are messy, and they can be experimented with and individualized or individuated to each person in their experience. And that's something that I don't think science or academics leaves a lot of room for. Is this idea of individuation right they want, if we were to do an experiment, for example, on courts, they would want every piece of courts to produce the same results in every single person, and there's so many layers of identity and individualism that get lost in that process. And so this idea of bringing data collection into your own home and almost creating your own science right, creating your own research and allowing that to be enough, I think is something that we're missing, because so often I find myself feeling like science does it backwards right when science was first created.

Speaker 1:

If we go very back to the original kind of origin story, right of science, it was designed because there were these great philosophers who saw these magical happenings, if you will around them and wanted to know what was going on. They wanted to know more about them, and so it was. This idea of this thing is happening. It is real. How can I understand it better? And somewhere along the way we lost that and it's become.

Speaker 1:

This thing isn't happening unless I can prove it and unless I can show it, and I think that this conversation is a really brilliant opening window for people to be able to step back into that original intention for what science was meant to be of. Can you bring it into your own experience and notice? How does it feel? Is it creating an effect? How is it different from day to day? And allow that to be basis enough for saying, yes, this crystal impacts me in this way today and yes, this crystal feels this way for me. And allow that to be basis enough for saying, yes, this crystal impacts me in this way today and yes, this crystal feels this way for me. And allow that to be the data that you hold, solid and true for your own life, because in your own life it is solid and true, and just because it might not present that way for someone else doesn't make it false or invalid.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. You know, at the end of the day, a lot of what we do is unscientific in the spiritual world and we're we're not going to get the backing of academia behind a lot of it. I'm pleasantly surprised how often we get peer-reviewed studies on things like energy medicine, particularly reiki, and and other things that provide really valuable reminders that something is happening. Can they tell us what the pathway that produces that effect is? No, it's the same in flower essence therapy. Flower essences repeatedly perform better than placebos, repeatedly, as long as the core tenets of the practice are observed. And so science has no explanation for the phenomena they're witnessing, except that it works. It's a result whose cause is unknown, an effect whose cause has not been mapped out yet. But when you ask flower essence therapists, they know, they get it. It's the same with crystal healing. We might be able to get to a point where we can demonstrate an effect. Maybe we can have theoretical models like the ones I love to kind of lean into in my writing, but we can't prove those. But when you ask people who've been doing it for a long time, they know. They know what the spirit of the stone does. It's the same phenomenon we see with ethnobotanists going out into the field, finding indigenous folks learning about their plant wisdom.

Speaker 2:

I went through a phase where I read a lot on ethnobotany because it was so different to my everyday life and wasn't the field I was directly involved in. So it was like a breath of fresh air and it inspired a lot of what I do. But it it it tickles me to know. And how many scientists go out there and and expect to hear why do you know this plant does this? It's not trial and error. The plant told us. And then they take it to the lab, they extract something from it and they're like, wow, the plant was right, it told them that it does this and we can prove it in a lab repeatedly, over and over again.

Speaker 2:

So why is the indigenous data, through a different medium, less valid than the academics? And we have to remind ourselves that in the fabric of society that is very distanced from the land, from spirit, that is, you know, roughly like, aggressively individualistic, we are meant to be in community with one another, with the spiritual ecosystem within and around us, with the land itself, with the stars, with the seasons, and one of the things that I love about rocks is they've never forgotten how to do that. Every piece of rock or stone or fossil or gem that you pick up is intrinsically connected to that larger geosphere, the bigger aspect of the planet that is made out of all things geological, and it really helps frame the work we do as together, rather than for it's not doing something for me, it's doing something together with me.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely so. With that said, if there was someone who listens to this podcast and is really inspired to begin this first step of doing the work, as we've been calling it, with a crystal, where would you encourage them to start or what piece of advice would you offer for them?

Speaker 2:

Pick something you love, like if you're brand new to crystals. Find your local crystal shop, rock hound kind of store, gem and mineral show and pick something you love. Don't immediately look for the things that make you want to turn tail and run. They're great, note them, maybe buy them, but you don't have to start the work with it. So pick something that fascinates you, whether it's the color, the shape, the way it feels just a kind of inner clairvoyant, knowing whatever signal you get that it's for you. Start there and learn the foundation stuff, like learn how to cleanse a crystal. There's so many different ways. If you ask 10 crystal healers the number one best way to cleanse a crystal, you're going to get 30 answers Um, maybe we're just um indecisive people, Um, but also maybe it's because more than one thing can be true at a time. Uh, learn if you want to work with that intention piece. Learn about things like programming your crystals, sometimes referred to as charging your crystals. Learn how to just block off a few distractions and show up for the stone. You can do that by what I call a crystal contemplation, which is, pick your rock of choice.

Speaker 2:

Find the best lighting you've got available to you, if it's LEDs like I've got in my office, great, if it's natural sunlight, which I do not have today. Go do that and just ooh and ah over it. Look at how light travels through. It reflects off of every face. Get to know the textures. Some have a sound. When you tap them it's a distinct ringing. In the right specimen it's a dull thump or clunk. In others, um, if it is not toxic or sharp or fragile. Get to know in a tactile sense and and really kind of integrate that, that physical weight of it, the shape, the, the textures on the surface.

Speaker 2:

While we're doing all this stuff with the majority of our senses, you can probably smell your rocks. No, no problem, please do not taste your rocks. When we engage as many senses as we can, it kind of gives the conscious mind something to occupy itself, while leaving the back door to perception open. And you're going to start to notice, wow, when I engage all of my senses, I feel a certain kind of way with this stone. I feel another kind of way with that stone and that's a really great starting point because it doesn't feel like a formal ritual, it doesn't feel like an itemized list of meditations you have to do.

Speaker 1:

It's just finding wonder, and that wonder bit that sense of awe is, I think, wonder bit that sense of awe is, I think, at the core, the common thing we find in all effective spiritual practice around the world Absolutely, and so, knowing that you teach a lot of what you just spoke about, if someone wants to connect with you further or read your books or work with you, how can they do that?

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for asking. So you can find me online at wwwtheluminouspearlcom and on social media at the Luminous Pearl. In most places, I think just about anywhere I am is at the Luminous Pearl now and hopefully my books are found. Anywhere books are sold. You can certainly find them online or with your local indie bookstores. A really great starting point is Crystal Basics. If you want something more concise, there's a pocket encyclopedia called Crystal Basics Pocket Encyclopedia and coming in January I have a brand new book coming out called Crystals for Psychic Self-Defense and we've got pre-orders open for that already.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. I can't wait to read that one. Psychic protection is definitely something we work with in the shamanic field, so I'm excited for that to come out. For those of you listening, all of those links will be in the show notes. Nicholas, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It has truly been a joy and an honor to get to speak with you and hear your perspectives. You have so much wisdom to share.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a delightful chat.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. Thank you everyone for listening, for your time and attention. I hope you found this episode insightful. Any link that we mentioned throughout today's episode can be found in the show notes, and until next time may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Thanks for tuning in to today's show. The Wisdom Rising podcast is sponsored by Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, facebook, youtube and TikTok at Moon Rising Institute, or visit our website moonrisinginstitutecom to learn more about our mission and find future opportunities to connect with our community of shamanic mystics. Once again, thank you for sharing space with us today, and until next time may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.