Wisdom Rising

Walk The Mystical Path With Practical Feet with Dr. Kathryn Leeman

• Christine Renee and Shantel Ochoa

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Join us for a interview by Shantel to discuss what it truly means to walk the shamanic path with the global awakening and shifts in consciousness happening today, and how to honor our own spiritual journeys with patience and authenticity. Our guest shares messages from ancestral and spirit guides, offering insight on how ancient teachings can guide us toward meaning, connection, and balance in the modern world.

Kathryn Leeman, Ph.D. is a seasoned Spiritual Guide and Director who has spent over 40 years in the metaphysical and healing arts. Recognized for her intuitive gifts from a young age, Kathryn began formal training at the Church of Psychic Science in Scotland, developing her abilities as a clairvoyant, clairsentient, and clairaudient reader.

In this episode we explore: 

  • The braided way bridging shamanism, psychology, and energy work
  • Mentorship as protection against fear and confusion
  • Seasonal archetypes for timing growth and rest
  • Transmission experiences with the Divine Mother
  • Rites of passage and the rigor behind true initiation
  • Holding peace and clearing psychic free radicals
  • Daily practices for presence and grace

Blending her background in Transpersonal Psychology—a field that bridges spirituality and modern psychology—with decades of study under shamans, healers, and teachers from around the world, Kathryn brings a deeply grounded and holistic approach to spiritual growth.

Through her work, she helps people find clarity, healing, and purpose—whether in relationships, career paths, or their soul’s deeper journey. Known for her compassionate insight and practical wisdom, Kathryn guides others in awakening to who they truly are and living from a place of authenticity and connection.

To learn more about Dr. Kathryn Leeman visit: http://konsciouskonnection.com/

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
Website: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/
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Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moonrisingmystics
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Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@moonrisinginstitute
Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://moonrisinginstitute.kit.com/spiritguide

Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine Renee and Chantel Ochoa as we dance between worlds of shamanism, mysticism, and energy healing. Each week we illuminate your path to self-sourced wisdom and attune you to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.

SPEAKER_03:

Welcome back to Whispers of Wisdom. This week we're excited to share a special episode Awakening the Soul Through Natural Mysticism with Catherine Lehman. In this conversation, we explore how living a life rooted in natural mysticism, blended with shamanism, spirituality, and transpersonal psychology can become a powerful path of healing and awakening. It's my belief that natural mysticism beautifully bridges the worlds of spirituality and shamanism, creating a way of life that's both energetically vibrant and deeply grounding. So stay with us for the full episode. And if you enjoy it, be sure to visit Catherine's website, linked in the show notes, to learn more about her offerings. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share with your soul tribe. Thanks for tuning in. And now let's step into the conversation of awakening the soul through natural mysticism. Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's podcast with Whispers of Wisdom. And today is our guest, a Catherine Lehman, which I am so excited to have you here with me today because we just have a really deep connection and deep history. And so for me, um having this conversation, this interview with you is just it's heartled, heartfelt. And I'm just excited to be able to introduce you to my community here at uh Moon Rising and with Whispers of Wisdom as well as my home-based community. And so I just want to give you a warm welcome and allow you to go ahead and introduce yourself because you just have a depth of knowledge and wisdom within you.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, thank you. So I am very excited to be here. Um, was very honored that you asked. And um we've worked together and played together, and it's been it's been a journey, and uh it's just so heartfelt, so deep. So thank you. I've been on this journey for a long time. And um gosh, it started back in 1973. Wow. So it's been a it's been a minute.

SPEAKER_03:

It has, it has. So can you tell us a little bit about that and how it all showed up for you? Because I know that you have you've traveled the world and you've worked with many cultures and indigenous tribes, you've done a lot of land work and spiritual journeys, and you work with with Divine Mother and the essence of all feminine energy. And I just that really pulls on my heart. I love working with you there. And so, yeah, just let us let me know how you started, how this all came to you.

SPEAKER_01:

It actually came to um when I was pregnant with my first daughter, and I started reading books on pregnancy, and in doing that, I read about midwifery and I read about uh spirituality, and things just started to come together, and I started to have these experiences, and I had a a calling of what her name was. Some that came to me just out of the ethers when I was standing in the middle of a doorway. I heard her name as clear as a bell, and I could feel her soul, and it just went from there, and then I just started having these experiences, psychic experiences, and I just didn't know what to think. I was very lost, I was very young, I was very new, and some people said it was devil worship, and other people were saying the opposite, and so I had a lot of confusion. So I did a lot of studying, I started reaching out um to a spiritual community to get my feet wet and all of that, and uh started owning my own uh who I am because I was very psychic as a child and that got shut down. And I went into a very deep depression and um food addiction that lasted for almost 20 years before it all broke open again and the spiritual stuff, and I actually saw an attempted murder psychically of someone and went into a spontaneous trance. And then my phone rang and it had happened like it the murder didn't happen, and it was it was prevented. But I then I traveled because I grew up in the backwoods of Maine, so then I traveled to Boston to a reputable psychic to find out if I was, you know, weird out there losing your mind or not. Losing my mind, and so one thing led to another, and then I found myself in Scotland and going from there in I stumbled upon the Church of Psychic Science, and they welcomed me in, they knew who I was the minute I walked in the door, which scared me. They said, Oh, we've been waiting for you, Kathy. And I was like, What? And uh it was part of the Edgar Casey Foundation. Oh wow from Virginia Beach. And uh they started training me and working with me, and then one thing, and I met shamans along the way and got adopted into um a Native American tribe, an indigenous tribe in Southern California, and went through all the rites and passages to become a full-fledged medicine woman and working with shamans and just one thing after another led me, as it has you, um, to traveling and giving spiritual tours to different indigenous cultures around the world.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, beautiful. I always um find your story fascinating when I hear it, to be honest. I know I don't share that with you, but I do because it's not often that you come across like medicine people that really have that true essence to their story. And so I always enjoy listening to yours. I do want to touch on um when you were speaking about how you first started getting some of your psychic abilities and receiving um messages and stuff. Maybe for some of our listeners who are new to this that are stepping out of their own spiritual closet, so to speak, that how you were able to embrace yourself, like you said, that you were able to not feel that you were crazy, but that you're actually embracing your own gifts.

SPEAKER_01:

That is an excellent question because what I highly recommend, because this is what happened for me, is I found a spiritual mentor who did a lot of regression and a lot of deep work, a very reputable spiritual mentor who took me under her wing, Dr. Hazel Denning, and she had written several books, and she just schooled me and helped me to develop. And I had so many fears to get through because of so much persecution from past lives, you know. Oh, that's important too, you know, and all you know, all of the stuff, and and even the persecution in this life. So I don't believe, I truly don't, that someone can do it on their own. They're not meant to. This is something, this is such a deep path. Our ego can't see the soul of who we are. It's only when we can be led into our deep inner self can we see the soul of who we are. So I really recommend finding a spiritual mentor like you, or like me, or like someone that they feel connected with, that they can begin to discover the truth of who they really are and take it from there. Let synchronistic events unfold that will lead them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I really love that recommendation because I see a lot of comments around of how people can do it on their own and how you know we shouldn't be gatekeepers. And I don't see being a mentor as a gatekeeper. I feel that we're we're creating and building community and tribes of people to come forward to support each other, to love on each other, to witness each other, and as well as to be mirrors to each other. And so it is important to know that you don't need to do it on your own. You're not meant to do it on your own, like you said. It's really hard for us to know who we are when we're trying to isolate and do it all for ourselves. And I think throughout history, that's what kind of got us to where we are now is being individual and separate versus coming together and having community. So great, great points.

SPEAKER_01:

If we were meant to do it on a by ourselves, we'd be on a planet all by ourselves, and we're not. So we're all we're all soul connected, you know. What is in the one is in the whole, you know, the many and the one and the one in the many. And you can't separate from that, no matter how much the mind would like to, but eventually it doesn't work, and people come around and see that, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So in your so traveling the world and and meeting all of these amazing people on your journey, I'm sure. Um, and now you're you are in the States and you're on the East Coast. And now I met you here in California and you've traveled since I've known you. And um just on a personal note of how we met is that you have been my husband's teacher and mentor and friend for 20, 21 years now. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, maybe a little longer than that, right?

SPEAKER_03:

A little longer than that. And so um, when I came into his life and I had um my own healing that I needed to do, and he introduced me to you right away as soon as that started showing up. He's like, This is where you're going. And you were my first uh intro to the spiritual realm of people. And I mean, I knew of things prior to, but that is really when my gate opened. And so um, yeah, and getting mentored and having taken classes with you, and we just did our own one-year um program together last year of natural mysticism, and that really just opened me up to so much that I now um teach and bring forward and is a part of my personal practice. So, would you like to talk a little bit about that, of what you offer and what you do now and as your own as a mentor and teacher yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, natural mysticism was born out of um myself working with Dr. Angelus Arian, who is now an ancestor, and she uh wrote a lot of books, and the one in particular was The Fourfold Way, and then studying with people like Carolyn Mace and different indigenous people, Martine Prochtel, and so many different uh shamans and the works that they've written, and natural mysticism came about because I was told many times in different cultures that I walked the braided way, which meant I took many different modalities and I braided them all together from all over the world because they're all saying the same thing, but they say it in their own way. And so when I could see the common thread, I brought it in and and put it all together. So natural mysticism is about walking the mystical path with practical feet. It's not a woo-woo, as you know, it's not a woo-woo class, right? It is really how to apply spiritual aspects while you walk the earth and how to be in harmony with the seasons and the archetypes of the season, and what are the ancestors saying, and how to make it practical so that you don't have to feel a division between your spiritual life and your practical life. How can you walk with your feet on the good red road with your mind in the blue ribbon road of spirit, but your heart in the centered, balanced place of both? And so when you can do that, then you're you're walking in harmony with your soul path. And so that's what um I've been teaching. I also offer healing heart and soul retreats, and that's where the Divine Mother comes through and works with people individually and collectively all weekend. It's a weekend kind of retreat, which we're gonna be putting together for the spring. And um many different types of retreats. I have stopped doing international travel right now, uh, taking groups on spiritual pilgrimages due to the circumstances in the world right now. It's not safe to really travel and do deep work, spiritual work. People can travel and go places, but when they find a group, and I encountered it's the last trip I took, they really, people, there are always guards around to prevent groups from gathering or to do any type of spiritual practice. So I'm doing them at home now, on our shores, and am creating a whole new venue for next year. I'm in the process of doing that right now.

SPEAKER_03:

It it makes sense not to travel in groups, like you say, instead of doing it individually or in a small, like a pairing or something. Um, because it is important that we're still doing the land work and we are doing our spiritual journey, because if we're led and guided to do that, we have to follow that purpose and mission within our heart. But you're finding it to be able to do it where you're at now and traveling here, which also brings it energetically across the world.

SPEAKER_01:

Of course it does. Yeah, and and the United States needs it. Yes, we do, we need it, and so I've been working for 40 years coast to coast. I've been going between Virginia and California and and tribes and connecting the rainbow between the coasts and been doing that natural mysticism for a very long time. And so many of the East Coast tribe know the West Coast tribe, and you know, we work together and then we all come together at some point and do some group work. So I'm looking forward to doing that. And I'm also opening up to working with people one-on-one, like this with Zoom, and in the natural mysticism way, if the and the archetypal way. I help people to discover what archetypes they're, you know, what their soul contract is and what they came in here to do, and who's their team, who's their body of archetypes that's really working with them, and how to become more of the puppet master rather than feeling like a puppet to life, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

I love that analogy, and that's it's so true. And from learning with and working with you too, that has been something that really opened up for me. And so being able to provide that as my own teachings because when you connect all the dots, you know, it's kind of like that. It's like put bringing all the puzzle pieces together. And as you're talking about the like the braided way, it is because there's so many modalities out there. And I truly believe that, you know, there are some people that are like, no, you're, you know, doing cultural appropriation and all these kinds of talks. And I'm like, I personally believe, no, this it's time for all these modalities to come forward and come together and connect. Because as human beings and spiritual beings in this physical body, we need to know how we can heal on all levels of ourselves. And if that's through the chakras, if that's through the meridians, if that's through energy energy work or shamanism, working the land, whatever we're called to do, that is our calling right now. There's just this opening that's happening. And so having people stepping forward to say, yes, come and learn. I love that. And Zoom now is going to open you up so much to be able to connect to everyone across the world, wherever that you choose to connect. Um so can we go back a little bit and talk about your experience with a mother?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, let's see how brief I can keep that.

SPEAKER_03:

Um because I've had many experiences with her at this point and um and with you, and it just is always so beautiful and so insightful and on point, you know, of course. And you feel that shift, and I've been able to introduce it to a lot of people here in my personal community. So I'm loving that you're able to share that here.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, thanks. Well, I had quite the experience from uh, and this was in 1992 with the Divine Mother, um, where I was really um working. I my PhD is in transpersonal psychology, and I wanted to really go to a conference that was taking place over in Prague, which was then Prague and Czechoslovakia back then, at the end of the solidarity movement. And I went, um, I got invited to go, and I went, and um I got a scholarship so I could go. And after the conference was over, and I met a lot of people from around the world and shamans and healers and teachers, and then we 13 of us boarded a little school, uh broken, kind of a broken down Volkswagen bus, and started traveling because back in the solidarity movement, people would wear armbands with a mother's face on them, and the dark it's called the Dark Madonna because she was originally dark-skinned, as I tell people, she wasn't any white girl. Okay, she was dark-skinned, she was born in Africa, all right. So, um, so we went around taking barbed wire off, putting pieces back together, looking at what you know, where we could work with that archetype as well as the archetype of the green man came upon a church in Alating, Germany, where there was a little um, it's kind of like Lourdes in France. Um it had crutches and wheelchairs and stuff in the corner where people had received instant healing. And this little town had grown up around it. And I went in and with busloads were it coming and going, and when everybody had cleared out, I had hidden down behind one of the pews, and nobody was around. So I snuck out and there because she was there and she had all these priests' robes on and things that I I would just thought, oh she I just wanted to take them off, but I didn't. I was a good girl. Um, and I reached my hand through the wooden fence that kept you from touching her, and when I touched her feet, an energy shot through me that was the most profound love that is not humanly possible to experience between two humans. You can't, it's it, it's it I don't know, it threw me into a seizure. My brain had to be rewired. I sobbed so hard, and I I got vision after vision after vision of what I was meant to be doing, and I dedicated my life to her at that point, and I cried for four days.

SPEAKER_03:

And how old were you at that point?

SPEAKER_01:

Gosh, 92. Um, I'd have to go back and think and do the math, but I was in my 40s, so I um I think yeah. Um so after that, and then I got the the little bus was in Munich, Germany, and we were on the streets, and a riot broke out between the skinheads and a lot of people, and I ran down an alley because there was gunfire, and there was a little side door that was open, nothing was marked, everything was unmarked. So I stepped in real quick. I didn't know if I was stepping into somebody's home or what was happening, and shut the door very quickly and turned around, and there was a statue of her again with all these lit candles, and I had that experience again. So it was profound and it absolutely changed my life. And so I'd like to talk about just for a quick second, the divine feminine, because I don't relegate it just to the mother, um, like a lot of people. Um, the majority of people I connect with or get messages, um, have a Catholic background. So they see her as Mother Mary, and that's fine. Some people have been um, you know, Asian culture and see her as Kwan Yin, or it's the divine feminine collective. There's no one particular being. There are it's an archetypal energy where the divine feminine as a whole, before it becomes a particular being, has this information, has the love for you know all of humanity and nature. And that's what I have worked with her to expand, to connect into, and that's what I connect into and let her love just flow through. And as you said, many people in the room sometimes can feel that love coming through. Yeah, you usually we we pass health clinics beforehand because they get used.

SPEAKER_03:

I've done both um on Zoom as well as in person, and definitely in person, the whole space fills up with that love, and you you feel it. There's a shift, there's an absolute shift that happens. I mean, and there's a physical shift within you that occurs and your voice, and you know, everything kind of has a different side of you that shows up on Zoom. I think people have to really tune in a little more. And if they allow themselves, they can. Um, but we know energy defies space and you know, all of that, however, in distance, but it's up to the person to truly connect with the essence of it. And if you do, it's powerful, you know, either way. And so I yeah, like kind of I've been honored to experience it and and I highly recommend it.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember, I just gotta share this. I remember being there with you at the center and getting ready to do that. And I really I told you I can't do it because I had a bad cold and I was I couldn't stop coughing and I couldn't stop blowing my nose. And how am I gonna do this? And I would try and I'd start acting, and I said, Okay, I can't do that. And I heard her so loud and clear, you may have a cold, but I do not get out of the way. And I went, okay.

SPEAKER_03:

And then she came through and I don't think I coughed or sneezed or did anything the whole it was funny because when you were flying in, you know, and I told you, if you can't, if you're sick, and I think you were driving through a storm on the east coast, and and you were like, I'm going through this crazy storm and I'm sick. And I was like, if you need to cancel, reschedule, we're good. And then you're like, let me get back to you. And then you came back, you're like, nope. And you said, she's like, You have a cold, I do not, you're going, and all would be well, and all was. And then you got there and you were sick. And um and the interesting thing was is we did we set you up. I had you set up and tissues and all the things, and you did you had to wipe your nose and all that. And and even the audience kind of commented how they were so mesmerized by what was happening, they didn't even realize how often you were wiping your nose and you had like a pile of tissues right there, but nobody even noticed it because everyone's just in that energy, which is it just consumed you in such a beautiful way. Because um, unless you're truly open in the heart space, it's difficult. A lot of people aren't, which is, you know, we're working on that collectively right now is opening our hearts to others. And so when you can be in the space with a gathering of people that are like-minded and want to be heart-based and heart connected, it truly is an experience to endure, even if if you're not there to channel mother, you know, it's just gathering to as people, but definitely watching you transform in that, in a sense, because you go into channeling or trance, like you're both, right?

SPEAKER_01:

You're doing I really don't like to call it channeling because people have a chance. You know, it's I just go into a very sacred space and place within my own soul, and I ask to become the holy grail, the little hollow bone, and then I'm taken to a whole nother level of energy and completely surrender and allow that to happen. One of the things that I think why people in the communities when they're excuse me, when they're together, um, they immediately feel safe. And that's why they're able to come up and ask the questions and get an answer from the mother of us all, because oftentimes out in the world, they don't feel safe. Like I didn't feel safe when I first started, you know. So there's uh just this feeling very safe and very wrapped in love. And that's why when she and I do the healing heart retreats, each person gets to sit in front of me and I come around behind them and wrap and put my hands over their heart and just channel that energy right through. Um, so each person gets wrapped in the arms of the mother for a half an hour.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah. So that is an intense retreat to go through. I have not experienced that, the other parts I have, and being able to ask the questions, which is powerful, you know. And I think people, they they're always like, I don't know what to ask. And it's like, well, what is your what does your heart need? What do you what does your ego sometimes even need to get out of the way, you know, so to speak. And then they come up and they ask and receive. And I notice in some it's instant, and others they have to go home and and process it and do their analyzation because the mind wants to, you know, do its part. And then um the integration is so powerful to witness. And then they come forward and like, oh my gosh, like, what about this? And they she said that, and it's just like it takes a minute for some people, but it's okay, it's a big message. You're getting it on a soul level. We're not focusing on like the human aspect, it's coming from your soul, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Just planting the seeds and when and where they sprout. None of my business. It's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So when you're doing that, how do you feel? So you feel like you're pulled out and back you're like conscious and aware or not?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes and no. It's like I'm conscious and aware at a higher level, right? The mind is more out of the way for the the most part, and then I come back and feel the shift coming back into this dimension because I'm in a completely different dimension of time and space, um, which really doesn't exist. And when I come back, I lose 90% of what was. I might have it initially right there for somebody for a minute, but if they were to call me the next day, I would have no clue, no clue what she said to them or anything. It's completely gone. It's evaporated. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think a lot of people who do any kind of work with receiving messages, downloads from their guides or for others, it is like that. Like we're not meant to carry everybody's messages, otherwise, we would find ourselves losing who we are. So it's important to know. I think some people feel like they're supposed to maintain that, or their clients feel that. Like, oh, you said or you remember. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you know how many people I've seen in between, or that was so long ago. But what I personally feel is when they start speaking it, I can pull back in the archive and bring that forward energetically. Um, but yeah, no, I don't want to hold all of your stuff. No, we can that's why why we can be the spacekeepers and holders for others is for that moment, but not for once they leave, that's for them to go and do that that work.

SPEAKER_01:

So we can walk them to their own gate, but then it's up to them whether they choose to go through it or not.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. Yeah. It comes back to the free will of what choices you make are up to you. And if you walk through the gate and if you don't, you know, like as in the healing profession and what we do and the work we do, it's not to force anyone to do anything, it's to lead them, like you said, to that gate and to show them that they carry the key. It's all within you. So yeah. Um, so going to like when you were working with shamans and and connecting with the earthly realm and connecting with the spiritual realm, what do you think has been the most profound like part of your journey?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh boy, I don't know that I can answer that. Um because each it's like each each tribe I went into and worked with, um I had a profound experience with all of them. I think when I was working with the Muscaro Apache tribe, and what that's the one I was adopted to, and then I did um a six-month vision quest uh that was very strenuous. Normally it's only men are supposed to do it. But of course, I wanted I wanted both the masculine and the feminine and all of that, and that's how I earned my eagle feather.

unknown:

Was I?

SPEAKER_03:

Do you want to share a little bit on that? I've heard this story, and this is fascinating if it's something you can share.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, you learn you go through different rites of passage, and you have to go through dedication ceremony where you're dedicated to all of nature to be the caretaker of nature, to do all the things that you can do to help Mother Earth. Um, and you're taught ceremonies, various ceremonies, and then you have to learn how to fast and fast in a way where you have no food, no water, nothing for 24 hours, and then you keep building toward that, or maybe it's just a plain water fast to get your body ready to go up on the mountain for three days and three uh yeah, three days, four nights, and um you have to do before that uh you do sweat lodges and you go into having to dig um your own grave and sleep in your own grave at night. And that was tough, especially when it rained and my hole filled up with water um and freezing cold where I could literally, literally hear my bones rattling. I was so cold. So that's figure of speech had to come from someone who had that experience, and then um ending up going through no food, no water for almost four days and nights being up on that mountain and taking all that I had learned, building a medicine wheel, never stepping outside the wheel for safety reasons, but staying in that wheel and having to just be there and pray for your vision. And um, you know, and then you come off and you get real close to death. I mean, really close because your body starts to be in ketosis and you're starting to shut down. Then you have to disperse your medicine wheel and walk down the mountain and meet your medicine man or woman at the bottom, and they give you um your first drink of water, which by the way, I couldn't wait to get. And it tasted horrible because there was so much detox in my mouth and my body was oh, it was horrible. Um, and then they take and they do a celebration, like a birthday celebration, um, and where people come and it's a community event because while I'm fasting and going through this, the tribe is drinking for me, they're eating for me, they're dedicating all of that, and then they come at the end and give gifts, and you know, and I'll ask somebody, okay, who ate the peanut butter and jelly sandwich? And the hand would go up. So the tribe was is very connected that way, you know, we're a unit. But getting that eagle feather, um, and then I got eagle feathers in the when I was in the Amazon, I was gifted eagle feathers um by a shaman that would worked with the headhunters and met with the headhunters. I'm very happy to say it. Obviously, I got out of there, but I don't ever want to go back. And and going through, you know, Peru and Greece and France and Italy and just doing all of these sacred journey works, you know, walking the path of Saint Francis, or, you know, just crossing into many different ways of life and worshiping the earth and honoring, you know, the soul.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. I think it's fascinating. And I really wanted our listeners to hear that because they think that there's an idea that when we do this work and we're taking on our own teachings, whether it's going into the depths that you have, or you know, taking classes for weeks and months and turning that into years of practice, it's not easy work. You know, it's not like you just pick it up and you're, oh, here I am now. I'm this master of self. And no, it's years of dedication to our own healing, our own journey, so that we can then bring that medicine to others. So, um, and to hear that, because I don't think a lot of people know what a vision quest is, and to hear that experience is just right.

SPEAKER_01:

There's many different types of that, and that's one of the hardest ones. Though the ones in the my teacher went through in the bass culture, that's you have to go out for a year and um take a knife and a blanket, and that's it. You leave and you have to go fend yourself for a year and hopefully make it back, and you have to walk through the mountains. In the mountains, Pyrenees Mountains, with all the snow, and somehow, and you have to survive, and but they're prepared. Yeah, kind of like when I was over in Australia, it's the aborigine culture, you know, sends their boys on a walkabout. They often say women don't need to do vision quests because their vision quest is childbirth. That's they feel oftentimes that that is even harder, the pregnancy and the childbirth, than going out and doing that. So they feel they go through their own rite of passage when they become a mother.

SPEAKER_03:

So well, we're the portal of life, and so that totally makes sense to know that we are, and that is a rite of passage for all women, and to know that it is a sacred thing that we're doing. We're built, we're creating, we're creators, you know. Right. Um yeah, so my my closest that I went on a retreat um with Moon Rising to Montana this summer, and we were doing a Lakota sweat lodge, and that I wasn't able to go in because um I was on my cycle, and women aren't able to go in. And so I was a spaceholder and doing all of that. And it was very interesting what I was processing on the outside for them. So it's all interconnected, and then when it was all said and done, and all the women, I think they went through four or five different um heats, like the stones being brought in.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I did the Lakota sweats. I mean, I haven't done it well because I can't find one anymore, but that's the one I do.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and so at the end of that, I was smudging, and then I walked over to the fire, and this energy just came up and I started working, I was transmuting, I was processing it from above and below, and just doing the cycle and the the shaman that came out. I could hear her, and my eyes were closed, and she was like, Oh my gosh, what is she doing? It's so powerful because it was just this building. And then when I looked, I finally opened my eyes, they were all standing around, and I was like, Oh my gosh. And I'm like, lift your arms up, feel into it. It was so beautiful, so powerful. And um, yeah, so whether you're in it or out, like we're you're all connected, right? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

I also feel like Baba Yaga fire. Well, we did uh I used to do a lot of medicine woman retreats with the sweat lodge, the Anepe up in Big Bear, um up in the mountains in Big Bear.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh and uh, you know, we would call them Baba Yaga fires and we would just you know do typical and I know we've talked about create having our own retreat with that, you know, with our tribe, and and that would be wonderful to do. So yeah. Um let's see, I have another question. So with um everything, as we've kind of touched on the collective and where we are and everything. What, if any, do you like any advice you have for people as we are, you know, feeling I feel like our can our culture, our country is very divided, right? Obviously. And so there's those who can really hold the space for it. And I know, like for me, you tell people, you know, you can't feed fear with fear. You gotta do the opposite of the spectrum, you gotta give it courage and love and compassion to really bring in that balance. And then there's others that get so consumed by fear or anger and everything. And so, what's your advice for for people that are listening?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that is to really stay connected to your own inner peace. There's a place in us, in everyone, that is uh a divine spark. We're create well, that created divine spark is within us. And to connect with that and stay connected to nature. And as we stay connected to nature, we don't absorb the psychic free radicals. There's so much psychic free radicals that are affecting our health. We're not only getting them from our country, but we're getting them worldwide, you know, from all the devastations that are happening, from the wars that are happening. We're feeling all those psychic free radicals. And that's the part where we have to become aware of cleansing our own aura, our own morphogenetic field, becoming very aware we are a quantum field. And I work a lot with quantum physics, as you know, and um we have to understand that we have to be in control of it and help to eradicate all of that, that those psychic free radicals, because we don't serve anything. If we're if we're caught up in the fear, we're adding to the fear. But if we can hold and pray for grace, that's my biggest advice. No matter what how much fear you're feeling or anger, ask for the grace to be able to come through and help transmute it for you. If I had one word to give someone, it's grace. It's not love, it's not peace, it's grace. And grace doesn't always come in a sweet little yummy form. Sometimes grace is an arrow that will be given from the heart of the divine to shatter whatever that anger is, to shatter, and that's an act of grace, too, you know. So ask for the grace to be able to handle whatever's going on. And every morning when you wake up, ask, you know, do uh self-cradling with one hand over your heart and one hand over your stomach, and and ask, what is my internal resource for today? You don't need to think about the day. Psychically tune in and say, okay, I really don't know how my day is going to unfold, but what's the internal resource am I going to need? Is it courage? Is it happiness? Is it strength? Is it um it could be anything? It could, what's the word, the emotional word that you need? It's like somebody drawing an angel card, or you know, that's an internal resource. What is it for today? And you'll see that word popping up everywhere. You'll hear people talking and using that word, and you'll see you're in a state of grace when you're hearing that, and that you're connected and you're bringing that. People need to learn how to be a hollow bone so that they can bring in that grace, and then the love and the light, the laughter, the peace can begin to channel through, and you don't even need to say anything, you can just stand in a room and be the presence. You don't have to fix it, you don't have to try to change anybody, especially if no one's asking for your opinion about anything. Don't volunteer because you know that's where you set yourself up. So if if you step back, you know, if people can step back and just be present and present with all four intelligences, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, be present, be in your own little sacred hoop. Think of a hula hoop and be in the center of that hula hoop and don't let anything come inside it. Um, people will find that they can actually walk into a room and people all of a sudden their conversations will change. People might even look at you and wonder, who's that? And then the energy shifts in the room. And that's the best way to do it, without having to say anything, without having to do anything, but just to simply be.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, yeah, it's walking in and being that sacred witness and understanding what that means, and to be able, like you're saying, standing your own sacred hoop and being present is such a powerful way to show up. And you don't you can witness all the chaos or the conversations, what's going on around you, but you do not need to hook into it, you do not need to plug in, you can just be and holding that space is so powerful because people will feel the shift. They feel that light come in, they feel that energy come in, and it just it's almost like it just totally offsets it. Suddenly it's like, ooh, let's just calm down for a minute, and you don't even have to say that, just the presence is one of the um workshops that I'm putting together for next year, uh weekend retreat, is how to do that um by using the archetypes of the Wizard of Oz.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, all right. Find your own yellow brick road, yeah and claim your power, your love, and your wisdom, and get rid of the monkey mind, you know, the flying monkeys, and uh having a great time starting to put that together. It's gonna be a lot of fun, but it will be very transformative too.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you know where you're planning on having that?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I'm still waiting for the spaces to show up.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah, I have a few. I have a few in mind. One here, Montana. Like I have a few, so definitely we can talk and um and give that out too. So yeah. Is there anything else that you would like to share as we start to wrap up our conversation? I really feel that um I just I love what you bring forward. So this was a great conversation, and I think that a lot of people are really gonna, those seeds have been planted, I'm gonna say. And I I feel that there will be a big growth and transformation for people just listening to this conversation. They may not have always heard or before. If we can touch for people, and we kind of did a little bit, but those who are awakening right now, they can step into some of these teachings that you're talking about right away.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Listening, doing the internal resource, practicing, breath work. Notice how many times their tongue is on the roof of their mouth, because when the tongue is on the roof of the mouth, they're in fight or flight. And so if they relax their belly, drop their shoulders, drop their tongue, they're gonna immediately go into a quiet mind and more of a state of peace. It'll be more peaceful. And just breathe, just take deep breaths. Yes, that's you know, there are a lot of simple tools. Like I said, I really think you know, we are here and we're available as spiritual guides and mentors, and that's our main purpose, and that's what we're here to do. And um just need to make contact.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yes, and so I do I have your contact information in our show notes, so our listeners can definitely reach out to you and go through your website and see what services that you offer and um how they can communicate with you and connect with you through Zoom. You know, if they're not local on the East Coast, they can definitely reach out to you here, email you. Um, is there anything that you are offering right now that you would like them to know? That's kind of like right now they can contact you for.

SPEAKER_01:

No, just the one-on-one right now. Um, as we go into the winter months, that's a time to really come in if you're in harmony with nature. And that's where you start creating the seeds for the following year. So during the winter months, I don't do retreats, groups, things like that. But when it's spring and everything's blossoming and blooming, that's a time to bring what incubated over the winter forward. But I do do one-on-one and I do FaceTime. If people don't have Zoom, we can do FaceTime, or we just do phone. Some people don't want to at first be seen, and so that's fine. We just connect to the phone. So whatever works for someone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You also do biofeedback, which is one of my best like most referrals to you because of the scan and everything that they receive as well. Do you want to touch on that for a minute or two?

SPEAKER_01:

Real briefly, it's listed on my um website, but the biofeedback I use originally came out of NASA. And unfortunately, it's gone through different upgrades over the years. The biofeedback program saved my life when I was given six weeks to six months left to live. Somebody introduced me to biofeedback, and the woman were I was in the mountains in running springs, and she was in Ontario, California, and she kept sending me frequencies for healing through the biofeedback. And within three months, I was back to work and I'm still here. And so biofeedback uh reads 62 million bits of information on you in three and a half minutes to determine physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually what is out of balance and what needs to come into balance and to clean karma off, to clean and balance auras and chakras, to help the body come back into balance. It doesn't override your system. If somebody needed a boost to their liver, it would send frequencies to the liver to wake the liver up to do its job, that sort of thing. So nothing overpowers the body, and there's no harm that can be done. Because if, for instance, the liver didn't want to be worked on that day, it would say that. And it and we go and we would do something else. A little alarm would come up and say, Oh, okay, we're not gonna touch this today, we're gonna go over here. And so it and it works on the emotions. What emotions is are coming up? How can we clear them? What's going on? And it's very, very powerful. I work with it. Um, like I said, I've been working with it for 20 almost 24 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I love those.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's all remote, and people people do feel them. Yeah, oh yeah, you do feel them. And generally, what they feel is so relaxed because it's FDA approved as a stress reliever.

SPEAKER_03:

So it really because stress creates all of the imbalances in our body, so you feel so much more relaxed when it's yeah, you know, it's interesting because as a Reiki practitioner and and shamanic practitioner, you know, because I can journey and travel into the body and do all those things and see in the quantum and all that. But when I receive the biofeedback, it feels very similar because I'm very in tune physically. So I'll tell you, okay, you're working on my emotions, and then I'll feel like I'm gonna cry. You know, I've told you that. And you're like, you're you're so sensitive. But then you get the the report back, and that's I think for a lot of people who are in the head, you know, like they it they need that too. You know, it brings in both. You get the spiritual and then you get the the machine. So very good, very good. Um, so I do want to wrap up our conversation and I want to give you great things. And I do want to um ask you possibly to come back and maybe do a channeling with mother at some point to see if there's a collective message from that level. But um definitely like I appreciate your time and all of your wisdom. And um, I hope to see you back here again.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I give great thanks for this opportunity to see your lovely face and um us share our energy again. And I give great thanks that you asked, and we were able to make it work out.

SPEAKER_03:

I know, huh? Again, certain odds. It was very interesting with the internet this morning. We're like, we're gonna meet at 10. We kept trying to switch it, and it was like, nope, then 10 o'clock, it worked. So I give thanks to you, Catherine, and we will see you soon. All right. Blessings.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for tuning in to today's show, the Wisdom Rising Podcast, is sponsored by Moonrising Shamanic Institute. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Moonrising Institute, or visit our website, Moonrising Institute.com. Once again, thanks for sharing space with us today. And until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.