Wisdom Rising

Conscious Grieving Through The Holidays

• Christine Renee and Shantel Ochoa • Season 4 • Episode 13

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The holidays can be a beautiful strain on the heart—full of memories, expectations, and a thousand quiet reminders of what’s changed. We sit down to unpack conscious grieving with open hands: how to honor what hurts, make space for what heals, and choose traditions that actually support your nervous system. This isn’t a tidy list of stages; it’s a living practice that meets you where you are, whether you’re grieving a loved one, a marriage, a job, or an old identity that no longer fits.

In this episode, we explore:

🌕 Grief showing up as physical signals in the body
🌖 Boundaries for parties, family plans, and social energy
🌗 Honoring grief beyond death including divorce and identity loss
🌘 Cyclical grief via chakras and the medicine wheel, not linear stages
🌑 The hero’s journey as a frame for separation, initiation, and return
🌒 Preparing for hard dates with planned support and self-care
🌓 Permission to be imperfect parents and simplify routines
🌔 Moving anger safely with rage rooms, breath, and movement
🌕 Letting small moments of joy coexist with sorrow

You’ll get practical holiday tools: set clean boundaries for social events, create rituals of remembrance (an empty chair, a candle, a favorite dish), and plan for hard dates with therapy, movement, or extra rest. We share scripts for loved ones who want to help and specifics that lift the load—meals, childcare, dishes—without adding decision fatigue. We talk rage rooms and why moving anger can unlock the sadness beneath it. And we normalize small glimmers of joy: they don’t betray your grief; they remind you that your heart still works.

Join Shantel Ochoa in a twice monthly online conscious grieving support group, Through The Veil-Conscious Grieving Group, in a compassionate space to heal through the many layers of grief that touch all areas of life—loss of a loved one, relationships, identity, health, opportunities, or life transitions.

The group will offer an empathetic, supportive environment to explore emotions, build resilience, and reconnect with yourself at a deeper level. You will learn tools to honor your grief, regulate your emotional and energetic body, and cultivate healing that extends beyond the sessions into everyday life.

Group sessions will be held every month on the 2nd and 4th Monday 3-5pm PT/ 6-8pm ET. Our first call will be January 12th.  Join us for this monthly membership by clicking below at just $144/month: 

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/billing/plans/subscribe?plan_id=P-07

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
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Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine Renee and Chantel Ochoa as we dance between worlds of shamanism, mysticism, and energy healing. Each week we illuminate your path to self-sourced wisdom and attune you to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome back to Whispers of Wisdom. I'm your host, Christine Rene, and I'm joined with Chantel Ochoa as we dive into this conversation, our Whispers of Wisdom on conscious grieving through the holidays. And it there is so much laughter in this episode. So don't think that this is actually going to be a super heavy conversation because there was laughter throughout it. And we really get into the idea that grief is many different kinds of losses. So we talk about grieving, loss of a loved one, divorce, the children being involved in this, and how we can accept ourselves for not being the perfect parents as we go through these traumas, processing our emotions and really giving ourselves space during the holiday season to feel it all. So know that we have a new offering offered by Chantel Ochoa on Conscious Grieving starting January 12th. It's going to be the second and fourth Monday of every month, our conscious grievers group. And this is far beyond a conscious grief support group. This is a full alchemization, understanding your energy, witnessing your energy, and moving through it. So definitely check out the show notes for more information on that offering. And we wish you a very happy holidays this holiday season. Thanks for listening to your wisdom rising. Be sure to click the like, the subscribe, the share button, all of the things, and happy holidays.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm just gonna take a nice deep breath. Inhaling it in, stretching your body. I know I need this, so I'm gonna assume that everyone else needs to as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Whether you're watching in lunchtime zone or early morning, we want to welcome you, welcome you into the conversation for today's whispers of wisdom. I'm here with Chantelle Ochoa for our conversation, our whispers of wisdom this week on conscious grieving through the holidays. And if you don't know, Chantelle Ochoa is a leader, a facilitator of conscious grieving, whether that is one-on-one sessions or group facilitation. She has a wealth of wisdom. She recently was on the Connected Community podcast on this topic. And I was like, well, let's take it to the next level because here we are in the holidays and everyone's feeling something. So thanks, Chantel, for sharing your whispers of wisdom with us today.

SPEAKER_02:

I think this is a perfect time for this conversation. I think we tend to wrap back around to grief during this time of year, every year, but it's it's a good, I think, support system and foundation to provide our listeners and viewers, our community.

SPEAKER_01:

It it's um really having the awareness of what am I feeling right now? Like I have I've had um a client recently where she has experienced a loss recently, and her body is having a physical reaction to it. Like her hips aren't were like are really sore, her lower back is spasming, she's having and she's not she wasn't really emotionally available to move through it. And I'm like, well, let's let's see where we can go. And it was just recognizing how the emotions kind of move through the body as we recognize it. How does how do we bring from the subconscious emotions into the conscious awareness of feeling what we feel and recognizing as we move into the holidays, those emotions might be more intense? So it's kind of like how do we let yourself feel what you feel? Like there's so much. Um we oftentimes, as a strategy, as a mechanism to suppress or deny ourselves the time and space to feel what we feel. And as we move through the holidays, it's it's this remembrance of what happened during the last holidays when this person was in our life, right? Or so many years ago, or whenever it was of going, what emotions are available to me now? And do I feel safe to feel what I feel?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I think a lot of people, you know, we step into that energy of nostalgia, like you're talking about with um remembering what was and who was around. And as more people in the family transition out and you have just pictures left and memories left, right? It's it can be really difficult at this time. Like, do you even want to celebrate? Do you feel it? Do you not feel it? Do you, you know, want to be around family? Are you looking to just be with yourself to self-isolate and everything? So there's a lot of emotions that comes with this time of year. And also because the the season changing, it's getting darker, it's getting colder, this is a big add-on to it. I don't think it's just the holidays because not everybody celebrates, but I think what it is is that everything is shifting right now. It's not bright and fun and colorful, it's, you know, and and so as we're shifting in all of our seasons and cycles, it really can tug on the heartstrings.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And so what do we do with that? When we we're feeling those heart strings being tugged, what's our what's the nor like I don't even want to say normal, but what does your body, what does your system need to lean in instead of resist and push away?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Well, it's interesting with your client feeling all those physical aches and pains because it's manifesting physically.

SPEAKER_01:

It manifested like super quick. Yeah. And um, and to recognize, wow, this is energetic and not something I can stretch out, you know? And so it's it's this getting curious about, like I always lean in with my clients of like, can we just get curious about it? We don't have to judge it. We don't have to say this is right or wrong or black and white or this is we just what if we just leaned in and go, what is the body trying to communicate? What is the body experiencing right now? And what does that feel like? So I love bringing clients through like recognizing where is the physical issue in the body, and how what does it look like? If it had a texture, if it had a color, if it had a shape, what would that be? And as you just recognize it and say, I see you, I see that there. What emotion does it have? How is it moving? Oh, then where did it go to? And then all of a sudden it's a different color, it's a different texture, it's a different emotion. And you're just letting your observation of yourself move through. And then all of a sudden, because you're giving witness to the the body and what it's trying to communicate, how does it shift and change? Right. And so it's just one way of recognizing what the feelings are when you may be tempted just to suppress and push it down so that you can quote unquote make it through the holidays.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Well, and when we're going through our systems going through a shock, like loss, grief, anything like that, it's it is within our energy centers. So if we're not processing through our emotions, we're suppressing them or holding on to them. Does you know, like newbies to, you know, new people who are freshly experiencing grief, it's not so much about suppression at that point. It's it's holding it. Like we're in this very constrictive state of being, and the nervous system is fully in shock and it's not able to regulate itself. So, of course, that energy has to go somewhere through the system. And where does it land? Right. So, like for her, it's landing in her root system, it sounds like. So, you know, when you start to um witness, you start observing that space, what it's all about. It's security, it's foundation. Like she probably feels like everything got ripped out from under her. And how is she going to now continue to support herself or feel strong within her own physical experience when this person is no longer there? Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. And it's it's it's so this weekend has been it's been a little while because I feel like people are approaching me with different levels of grief in a way, like identity shifts, and that they're grieving the loss of specific identities, or that they're they're their loss of their sense of what it's supposed to be like, right? And so I feel like this season gives us this opportunity to maintain the traditions that we had and really like is this here to help me through the tradition itself, or does something need to change so that I can be fully present and honoring of the shift?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I love that. Um, just that getting curious with it, thinking about that. Does everything need to stay the same? Do we need to continue all the old traditions when really a lot of times it's am I holding on to that because that's who I was and who I'm still trying to be? Because there are some losses in our life that will change us forever. It reshapes who we are. And you're never gonna be that person you once were. You know, like the veil has been ripped open, the, you know, the layers have been stripped away, the mask and everything. So for me, it's like once those blinders have been removed, you know, that that safety net, that life is great, and then you lose somebody, it is extremely difficult to keep that old version of yourself alive. And I don't think that it's meant to. I think there are some losses that are here in our life to wake us up to a new version of ourself.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, absolutely. Right. And I think that's where, you know, there's a bit of how can you embrace yourself in the transition? And what do you need to allow yourself to be the new version of you as you step forward in that new energy? So it's kind of like, yes, we're honoring the grief, the emotions, the process, but at the same time, it's if I am being true to myself, what boundaries do I need to have? What, what, what things am I a yes for, and what are things that I'm a no for? And noticing which traditions are still in alignment that feels yes, I'm honoring this person, this event that was always there, and we're gonna continue to do so, versus how can I change and make a new thing for let's say your new family unit or your new solitary self or whatever it may be for you. It's like, how can we invite in new possibilities?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I think um one thing that we did is um, well, we do have some tips. So I do want to bring that up to our listeners just so that um if you're looking for something that's tangible, like what can I do? Um, you know, some people just kind of go through the process, and then others they really need to have more goal-oriented um opportunities or possibilities. Um, so like what you're saying is fill into who you are right now, right? Like setting those boundaries for yourself, really having a conversation with yourself. Does this dinner meet my needs? Does going and being in a house full of, you know, 30, 50 people, is that going to serve me? Is it going to support me? Or am I gonna get in there and feel like I'm in complete chaos and anxiety? And, you know, or is it they're going to see me in my pain and they're gonna be able to provide some kind of comfort?

SPEAKER_01:

Right? It's kind of like, am I going to this thing and gonna have to mask my way through it? Yeah. Like, you know, there are so many like company holiday parties and there are so many like expectations to show up and be sociable. And if you're not, if you literally can't hold yourself together to put on that happy face and you don't want to, then it's a no, you know, like an honoring, like I'm not available for that this year. I'm not like I want to honor where I'm at, and maybe that's to have smaller, more intimate spaces with individuals so that you can feel fine with where you're at. Maybe that's inviting friends over and being in your PJs and watching Christmas movies versus going to the holiday party. You know, it's like recognizing where your energy is at. And if it's needs to be more confined and held and supported, what kind of opportunities can you create or be um are you invited to where that's gonna be okay?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's kind of like creating your own container and what feels good for you, right? Because for first of all, you don't want to go to a big old event and then you're kind of like a blob on the couch, right? Yeah, and not filling into anything, and you're gonna go home pretty much and maybe blame or have a lot of guilt or shame or something because you did, right? That's gonna bring up a whole another layer of thought. And um, and and I think it's just yes, give yourself permission. It is okay. It is one year, two years, whatever. Give yourself that permission. And if it becomes a longer stretch and you realize, you know what, that isn't serving me, create your new traditions, and that's okay to do too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's you know what this is bringing up for me is that I have um I hold these group facilitations for women once a week. And one of the women um expressed recently that she really appreciates the way I hold space because if she's a hot mess, she can be a hot mess. If she is feeling bad, she can feel bad. That if whatever emotion she's at, she's completely honored in the circle of going, yeah, be that, be that. There's no need to show up. And you can only show up if you're happy and vibrant, and you know, like, and to have that invitation of like, if you feel like you have no energy and you show up, and and that's all you have the capacity for is just being present in the process of whatever your emotion is, great. And I just love those opportunities where if and creating, like, I'm sure in your grief support group, if someone is like having a celebratory moment to honoring that, and when someone is in their despair, they're being honored in that. You know, like really what are what are our containers that allow the fullness of our expression? And who is available to hold those types of sacred spaces?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, you know, and I love the two examples because in a group setting, you can there's a variety of emotions that can show up. And I totally welcome the wins in life. So there's a lot of times in my my grief group that you know, I'll say, Hey, well, today we're gonna start off with what's one good win you had this week, or give me something of gratitude, right? And in the beginning, when I started, when I took over this group, you know, they'd be like, There's nothing. And and then now they're like, I do have something. I do have a win, I do have a share, you know? And but we have to teach yourself too that there is something good in every situation. I don't mean the loss so much, but you can have good memories. Let's talk about the memories. You can share the name, you can, you know, like there is something you can always bring to the altar that is gonna lift you up, or that you just need to put down. And so it's important to be able to see both sides of it. Yeah, there's a huge spectrum in grief, and joy still has a place in it.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And I love that because I I feel like, you know, I um I attended a death and dying conference a couple years ago, and we had this um keynote speaker, and how she was expressing, you know, these seven levels of grief was really developed based on a very small pool sample, and that the way people move through those isn't the way people move through those, and that you can jump around, and that there's not really any kind of linear model for what grief is supposed to look like, and just having that permission of because you know, this one model has been developed about what grief is supposed to look like and when, and what the stages are, doesn't mean that there's actually real solid truth in that. And how does the brain recognize where it's at? And do you get find yourself in chronic grief? Like, are you a griever that is still in that chronic grief five years, 10 years, 20 years later, versus the person who is moving through the energy of it and finding new places and spaces to reconcile, reconcile and see in themselves their own identity outside of the grief.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And unfortunately, that has become the format to every psychoteque out there, and we really do not grieve that way. And I think it what it does too is it puts everyone into the same box, thinking we're all gonna react the same way. And it's just not true because you know what, you might feel one thing today, and then tomorrow you're gonna wake up feeling like a whole different emotion. And we need to honor that and not just think, well, I'm in I'm in my anger phase right now, so I can only feel anger, or I'm, you know, moving towards acceptance, but why am I feeling like I'm at the beginning of grief right now? You know, and it does carry this linear type of grieving process, and it's not, I see it as a circle. So I really focus on the medicine will and how are we moving through the cycles of our grief? I see them in our our chakra system. So the emotions, the body, all of that that comes forward with it. And that to me is so tangible. Like people can see themselves, it's okay if you're cycling. Through it. And there is not, there's not necessarily like an end to that. There's layers to it. There's our deeper, deeper emotions, then there's our lighter emotions. And we don't have to put pigeonhole ourselves into okay, I lost this person a year ago and I got to act this way because it's been a year. Because everyone expects me after a year to move on. And it's like, well, still a year is still fresh. That's still a new experience of loss versus somebody, like you said, chronic who's 10, 20, 30 years out, right? But even chronic grievers can look at the medicine will or grief in this way and go, oh my gosh, I never thought of that. I didn't realize I was even a chronic griever.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Can you? I love the way you describe this because I feel like it does break people out of this linear way of looking at it. It feels more spiraling rather than a straight line, that this like concrete linear fashion. Will you, because I know that you work through the chakras and the medicine wheel, and can you just describe what that looks like in your process?

SPEAKER_02:

So it's really going through the initial shock of everything, owning the, like knowing that part of yourself, right? There is no expectation in the beginning. So just accept where you are with it, right? Like it is really embracing your own emotions, embracing yourself. But we go through this cycle of where there is um, there are areas of um restoration, there's spaces to be able to go within. There is time of self-isolation, there is time to be able to go and socialize with friends, even if it's only a short period of time. And but what it is is going through all of these emotions and thoughts of self. And at some point, there does there is a place of integration or a space to be able to say, okay, I can choose. Do I want to continue on this grief path or do I want to start moving through it? And when you start moving through it, you're really empowering yourself to start living again and to live a different way, to reshape your life, to reshape your perspective of what life is, right? And so that's in the gist of it, it's kind of like what I work with, but it's important to just embrace where you are and honor where you're at, and know that um there can be a light at the end of the tunnel. Whereas I think in traditional grief, it's like the end goal is just to get to acceptance, which is that linear thing. There you are, you're just at acceptance, and we're messy people.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm like saying that again.

SPEAKER_01:

We are messy people, and we are supposed to be neat and tidy process. It's not.

SPEAKER_02:

It's not because you know what? This grief is gonna unmask other griefs and then layers and everything. So it's like before you know it, you're hanging out with your inner child and you're you're pissed off about something that happened to you when you're eight, you know? So it's okay to embrace it all.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I think part of that when I was thinking this morning before we got on of going in the grief, where do the pieces of fear of rejection or abandonment show up? Like you have these different fears that can be revealed in the griefing process, right? And there's this place and space of having the recognition of this is what I am feeling. This is, these are the fears that are coming up from my childhood, what was similar from my childhood losses or childhood abandonments to how that is now reflected in more of a recent loss, right? And so it's all available to kind of keep peeling back these layers to really understand yourself in a more broader and yet leaning into a more loving way of yourself, you know. So it's kind of like in those moments of just knowing that it can be mussy and knowing that you can experience more than one emotion at once, like you can feel on a on a multi-spectrum level, like those recognitions that just because this is the way that this grief group that is in your area sees it and this very black and white, and like, okay, now we're gonna all be angry. It doesn't necessarily work that way.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, right. Today we have anger on the table. Let's just talk there. Um, there's times where I will have them just laugh. I'll have them laugh. I'll say, you know what? We're gonna laugh for three minutes. And or we're gonna get up and we're gonna hug. We're just gonna hug and tell, you know, give them like a minute, two minutes of hugging, right? And it can be very awkward for some people. Um, I'm very much, I sometimes I like to push people past their limits because I think when people step out of their comfort zone and they realize, like, oh my gosh, that that hug actually felt really good. It was medicine, it was healing. Yes, it is. And we need to hug longer than two seconds, you know, the the quick little pat on the back hug, that's not heart to heart. And there's no healing in that. That's just like a quick, like, hey, how you doing? But when you really need some core healing, um, and for some people who haven't been touched, you know, through a hug, through, you know, just a patting of the hand, anything in a while because their partner is gone or something like that, doing hugs is really important. And so um one of the things I wanted to bring forward too is so one of the things I focus on in grief too is the hero's journey. And and so if you know what the hero's journey is, it's it's mythological and it's been around forever and ever. But what it is is that there comes a point, and it you'll see it in all movies where there's always like that climax, the the hero of the movie ends up on their own solo journey, and then they get brought back to their people and all of that. That's kind of what I and how I see grief is that when we lose our person or ourself, you know, even our own self-identity, we end up on our own solo journey where we are being taken away. We are being isolated, whether it's mentally, emotionally, physically, but there is some form of isolation where we're not connecting with who we were and all the people. And so, with that is the first part of it is separation, which in the hero's journey, I have death. So separation is death. And then we move, and with that is the refusal of the call. So there's a call to action, and then a lot of times in that people in that space, they refuse the call. They're in denial, they're in grief, there's no strength to want to even look at anything positive or and rightfully so. Then there's some mentor, there's something that shows up, whether that's grief, a friend, some kind of support. Then we move through like this crossing of the threshold into this unknown world. So you're going from your known world, what was what's familiar, to what is unknown to yourself. And that is your grief. This is the initiation of grief and self. And so this is when new people start coming into your life. This is when unfortunately you start finding yourself in support groups or cultivating something, understanding grief with others, right? You start attracting new people. Oh, I've had that experience too. Um, you know, you've you don't meet anybody who's lost a child. Suddenly, everyone you know has lost a child, you know, kind of thing. We're being magnets to that. But it's the initiation to it, and there becomes this conflict with self and a conflict with life. You no longer see life the way you used to. You may not like yourself like you used to. You may not like your life, your job, and people like you used to. And so what ends up happening is you have this battle with existence. Um, there might be temptations, temptations to drink, to do drugs, to party, to be sexually over, you know, be over sexual. Um, however, you start to feed your pain. And at some place, there comes this road back to self. And this is where we have exhausted everything within ourselves, and we're ready to now start stepping onto the road back to recovery. And that is the return, the soul journey of coming back to self. And so that's the refusal of being who you were because you now know you aren't, you're not that person anymore. So you have the self-acceptance. I have changed, I've been remolded, reshaped. Um, there's this ultimate reward of being able to connect spiritually to your loved ones, recognizing they're always there. We die physically, but we are infinite beings of energy and consciousness of spirit. Um, and then you become the master of two worlds. You become the master of what was, the master of who is, who's to come, the unknown and the known. And that really is that's when you become that one that says, I am masterful of self. And then when you're doing that with the chakras, that's your solar plexus when you come back out into your own personal power.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's so um sounds like an incredible path to take to recognize instead of the seven stages of grief, like, where am I at in my hero's journey? Because you're the hero for yourself. Right? It's not for someone else, it's for you. I love that. And in that moment, in that process, I should say, like, how are we recreating re-self-acceptance along along that journey?

SPEAKER_02:

And so, like you said, it is, it is your own personal hero's journey, and you're becoming the master of self. And what ends up happening a lot of times is most people through trauma, tragedy, when they come back to themselves, they become in service to others. Right. Right. And I think that that's a lot of when you start getting into soul contracts and stuff. I think that's why there is a lot of um, like when you look at loss, why did how did they die? Why did they die, you know, kind of thing. And is there a service in that? You know, people that overdose, right? That can be a big thing for a loved one to go and speak about fentanyl. Like I have a couple people that have lost loved ones through fentanyl, you know, and I can see them at some point becoming either opening some kind of nonprofit or being on a stage talking to high schoolers about the dangers of it, you know. And I think on a soul level, that is part of that contract of death. Like, okay, I'm gonna go this way, but then you're you are gonna now take it to a right of like a bigger platform.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I and I can see too that some people might have that story, like they have the story of their loss, and that they they have moved through the hero's journey, they've moved through the process, and now they're the quiet empaths in their worlds where they can relate in the friend group to the new person that's lost someone, and that they're just the shoulder to cry on because there's something to relate to. Like, for for my my my my weekend has been very much uh of people in my world moving through divorce. And the reason why that they people tend to come to me is because I've been through one very traumatic divorce and another very easy, soft divorce, but I've seen the range of it. And so people look to me. So it's almost like I might not start a divorce support group, I might not do it in a loud way, but then there I am. I'm the person who is available when you're when shit hits the fan in your life, and this is the this is where it's leading. People know to seek me out and be like, okay, what do I do? Exactly. And so even though it might not be a big expression, I didn't open a nonprofit or a safe house or you know, these types of things, it's also knowing that I can be a safe person to confide in. Yeah. To go, this is where I'm at, this is how hard it is. And for me to be like, I know exactly how that feels. And this is how I know you're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_02:

No, and that's that's great too. It's it doesn't have to be big and you know, grand. It it literally is becoming the spaceholder for people who are going through the same experiences, right? That's like-minded in that, right? They're seeking somebody who has gone through it. And when you become that safe person for them, that is big medicine. That is big medicine for the griever, for the person that has been, you know, feels shackled in their heart, that feels blocked and heavy. And how do you get back to life? You know, um, one of our comments is talking about um linear time. And yes, in our world, we live in time, space, reality, right? Which is linear. But when we can become the observer beyond what the constructs of our world represents, we can see that we're in cycles. Everything is a cycle. Our seasons, our nature, our like what is natural to our planet is all lives in cycles. And so we too can live in a you know, in our own way through cycles of life so that we can release them and move through them and heal them and give thanks to them. And um, to me, that's it. That's that shaman way, that's that walk, that's that medicine will of how is it? It goes within, it goes without, you know. So we're always doing this inward, outward healing process versus saying, you know, in one year I'm gonna be here because you might not know where you're gonna be.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And for everything, there is a season, you know, I feel like, and recognizing in that season that you can hold more than just one emotion, that you can hold you can it can be it can be more dynamic in whatever season you're in. And it's like, how do I for to kind of bring it back to the holidays? How do I honor where I'm at in this moment and this season of my life, and this where I'm at in my current journey? How do you create that moment of remembrance and honoring into your family holiday traditions? Right. So maybe that there is a candle lit with a pitcher near your Christmas tree. Maybe it is some type of small little ritual of having uh their favorite dish made, or whatever it may be that you're doing this as a an offering for the loss in your life.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. An empty seat, a spot, a space for spirit, you know, at the table. That is okay too. In ceremony, a lot of times you it's like a requirement to have a space for spirit to sit and to join. And so it's okay to do those things.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

My first year with my son, I bought him flowers every every month on the sixth. I created an altar, and every month on the sixth, he had fresh flowers. And I did that for the whole first year. And I thought for his the rest of my life, I thought I was gonna do that because it was so for me, it was the recognize recognition of him. Like I'm honoring you, and my honoring of him has shifted into different things. Um, now I just communicate. Now I just know I feel his energy, I know when he's around, kind of thing. And I just talk to him. And it, even if I don't feel that, I just communicate. But there's it has shifted over the years, but that whole first year and during the holidays, I, you know, I'd have a bowl of candy or I would make his food. And it's okay to do that, even 20 years out. If there's if it's on your heart, listen to yourself, listen to your intuition, right?

SPEAKER_01:

I love how part of that ritual was planning ahead for the hard days that you knew that the sixth might be a hard day. And how do I make space and honor for those hard days? And even if it's the death anniversary, how can we recognize and give space to maybe that's a day that you need to take off? Maybe you need to have extra self-care that week. Like, I have a very close friend where September is the month that is just incredibly hard for her. She's had multiple deaths that happen in that month. And I'm like, this is the month where we start therapy again. And this is the month where you make sure you're exercising. This is the month that you make sure you have a massage schedule once a week or whatever self-care that feels good to her. I'm I'm there in August going, Hey, are you ready? Are you are you setting yourself up to make it through the hard month? Right. And so it's kind of like as we move through the holidays, it can feel like that. It can feel like just a hard fucking month. Yes. Right? It can. So it's kind of like, what are you doing to set yourself up to feel supported? Not to feel great, not to feel celebratory, but just feel like you're supported. How can you ask for help? How can you say, what's going to be supportive to me? Maybe you need someone in your life to take your kids to their activities. Maybe you need someone to show up with a meal. Maybe, maybe there's some errands that someone else can do for you. And like it's it's recognizing where what energy capacity do you have and letting that be communicated. You know what it's it's um, I love, I kind of love this because I was talking to my son recently about video games and how they that you know what what your health points are or HP and what score you have. And how do you know that someone someone in the game is about to die? And it's like they're whoa, they lost so many hearts, or they don't have enough shields, or you know, it's very gamified, right? And I was like, maybe I need to do that with you. Like with my autoimmune, you would have no idea how I'm doing from just looking at me, how I'm doing physically or emotionally. You won't, right? And so maybe I need to set up a scoreboard in the house to show you where I'm at physically and emotionally, so that you know when something happens, instead of teasing me and and you know, making jokes about it that I can't emotionally handle because I don't have that capacity because my my hearts are down. That instead of you teasing, you could say, wow, that sounds really stressful. How can I support you right now? So I'm training my son to go, how do I support you right now? instead of teasing me about whatever it is. Sometimes it's that we need to, how do we communicate with our loved ones? Because on the outside, it might look like we're fine. It might look like we've got it all under fucking control. And maybe we don't. And so, how do we let the people closest to us see where we're at?

SPEAKER_02:

I just saw like um like so magnets one through five, gauge it on the refrigerator, nonverbal. There it is. I'm at a three today. I'm at a four. I'm at a five. So he doesn't even need to have a conversation with you. He can just see it, have that visual. No, mom is not feeling well today, or mom's at a one. Okay, today's the day I can tease mom because she's feeling good and she's gonna be able to tease me back, you know, or whatever. So yeah, that's actually a really good idea, or color something. Something. Um, because I think there's creating something in the house, right?

SPEAKER_01:

And being able to ask for help too. Right. Well, and I think that's where oftentimes you if you're so in your grief, if you're so in the emotion of it, you don't know how to ask. Right? Like there's it's a lot of effort to figure out what do I need to, what do I need to ask for. Versus if you have people in your world that know if you are low, these are the five top things that I should I could offer right now. It takes the pressure off of the griever to go, I need to come up with something. I need to make that meal plan or or create the the list of chores that need to do. It's kind of like if if you know that you're at low energy mode, offer to do the dishes, offer to do the laundry. Like these are the things that that back me up and make me fuller, feeling more in my emotions of overwhelm. How can we so it's like getting ahead of it? Okay, I know that December is gonna be a hard month. The holidays are always hard for me. This is how I'm gonna communicate where I'm at. And when you see that I'm in this low space, please offer to do the laundry. Please offer to make a meal. Like, don't ask me what I need because I don't know how to respond to that. I think there's so much, so many of us that have a really hard time communicating. We we always ask, what can I do to help? What can I do to support? But if that griever doesn't know, yeah, it's so much easier to be like, are you okay if I came over and did your dishes today?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And those are great tips for people who are not the griever for sure. Because I think a lot of people are always like, I don't know what to say or do. And it really isn't about what you say, it's holding space for others. But also, yeah, sometimes it is. Come and help watch the kids for a little bit. Let mom or dad or whoever, you know, go take a nap and and just go zone out and just focus on themselves, you know, and and because it is in the very beginning, everyone crowds around. But then once the funeral's done and all that's done, everyone goes back to their life. And a lot of people tend to forget, oh yeah, you were grieving. Oh yeah, how are you doing? You know, I haven't talked to you in a few months. And there's almost like this pushback where people are they they are in fear of contacting the griever because they haven't been in their life for so long. You know, like life got busy. I haven't seen you in a couple months. But you know, the thing is is the griever is probably more lost in their self than thinking about, oh, I haven't seen you in two months. Right. You know, where have you been? No, they're they're right here. They're so much in their own pain and suffering that they're not worried about what anybody else is doing. So I think that's where ego comes in sometimes, and and not in a negative way, but it's we always think of ourselves first, like, oh my gosh, I haven't been there and I'm such a terrible friend. Well, just show up and you can show up. Right. And don't be all apologetic and make it all dramatic. Just come in. I'm here, love you, missed you. Life's been busy. What do you need? Let's do this. I'm gonna wash your dishes, I'm gonna watch your kids, I'm you know, I'm gonna make you a cup of tea while you go sit outside and get some sun. Simple things, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Right. I think that that's it. It's the um those simple, smaller gestures can mean so much for people who are really in the thick of it. And so recognizing who in your world might this be a very difficult month for. And instead of making a plate of cookies, can you make a meal? Yeah. Cookies are great. I'm all for Christmas cookies, but maybe it's it's recognizing that this this week that they can't get out of bed, that they're in grief mode, that they're so in the emotions that showing up to be supportive in the way of everyday life of going, you know, let me take your kids to the zoo or to see the Christmas lights, and you get to stay home. Like those little gestures just to lessen the load so that there's less overwhelm. You do what you need to do, and I'm gonna take something off of your plate can just be a huge support.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And even if we're not just talking um death, let's talk about like the newly single mom, the newly single dad, people going through divorce, people going through loss of job, people that are going through, you know, there's so many things that just found out they got cheated on. Whatever the grief is, there are things that can take you out just as equal as if you had just lost somebody. You know, because we don't know how we're going to respond to any level of grief in life, any level of loss. And so, you know, just thinking of like, yeah, people who go through separation and divorce, like it's not easy on the single parent to now manage two, three, four kids on their own. So sometimes, you know, stepping in and just saying, hey, yeah, let me help you with that for a minute. That can be like such a huge, like, go cry, you know, because a lot of times parents don't feel like they can cry in front of their kids because then their kids are like, Why are you crying? What's going on?

SPEAKER_01:

And you can't say, well, your dad or your mom. Right, exactly. Like, I am I'm very much the you know, the um transition on the transition team of saying, we're gonna hold it together for our kids, but the moment that they're gone, we need to crash out and be angry, be messy, be crying, like don't suppress the emotions, but there is a time and place to pull that shit together. Right? And unfortunately, that's the way it is, especially when it comes to divorce. I'm going, you need to show up for this therapy in this way or this mediation this way, or this lawyer appointment this way, so that you can be seen in the system as stable. Right? So be stable when you have to be stable and really move through the emotions when you have the availability to. I am all for the rage rooms, I'm all for the therapy sessions where you're just you're dumping emotionally. Like I think there's places and spaces for all of these things so that if you are moving through the grief of losing a spouse, that you can also show up for your kids and also go, I need everyone to have sleepovers this weekend. I need everyone, I need to have the kids be with a third party so I can do what I need to do for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah, because unfortunately, not all like from my experience, my ex didn't stick around. So I was a fully single mom. And um, there was no moments of other than my kids were older, so they had friends, they were teenagers, you know. Um, so they were able to leave the house, be a little more independent, but still there was no time to say, okay, you're going to your dad's for the weekend, and I'm just gonna cry and purge and you know, do my thing, cry for or sleep for 48 hours. I there wasn't that time and space. I found it within my own, but it's difficult. Right. You know, it's difficult on parents, and um, so I definitely do see that there is a need for that. And at the same time, families don't look at that as the same level of grief as losing a loved one. Yeah, right. And so I just want to give that awareness that you know what, your new divorcees, they're going through it.

SPEAKER_01:

So, you know, support them too. Right. And giving yourself permission, if you're you're the griever, to go, you know what? Doing the best I can may mean putting my kids in front of the television. Yeah. And going into the bathroom and turning on the water and crying so that they can't hear you, right? That that is amazing. You're giving yourself the time and space to do what you need to do for you, and they're safe. They're okay. They're okay to put them in front of the TV if that is the option. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

If low, low budget meals, low, you know, like if you don't need to be in the kitchen cooking up those big old like five-course meals or whatever that used to happen when someone was around because you just don't have the energy to do it that night. Don't don't put that extra pressure because what will end up happening is that pressure that we put on ourselves, that expectation to keep everything looking perfect, will collapse. Those masks do fall, that structure collapses, and then physically you're not only seen for what you couldn't keep together and hold together, but you feel all of that too. So it's like, no, it is really time to just give yourself the grace and the time to do the inner work and to really hold yourself when you need to.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, absolutely. I have, I've, I'm definitely the person that um tells my my friends that are going through grief and my clients that, you know, if you don't have enough energy to do the dishes, then, you know, leave the dishwasher clean. Take out what you need, put the dirty dishes back in and run it again. There is no judge out there saying that this is the right and only way to do the dishes. And you deserve to have clean dishes. So just run the damn thing again.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's like take the shortcuts that you don't even necessarily think about. But if it's like, yeah, my kids are gonna eat mac and cheese for the third meal in the row, whatever. They will they will get through this, they will one day have balanced dietary needs met at some point. This might not be the week. It's okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Girl, this is not your week, kid, and it's all right. Here's a box of mac and cheese.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. It's okay, it's okay. And I think we need to give ourselves permission to not be the perfect parents a hundred percent of the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, our kids need to know that there's no such thing as like the perfect parent, that we have emotions too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, right, especially when you're going through a toxic divorce where one parent is really strong at pretending they're the perfect parent. And a lot of times, even that parent is pretending, yeah, you know, when they're attacking mom or attacking dad, like you're not perfect because you're lashing out your anger and control. So there's a lot to it. But yes, there is a lot of grief and a lot of time that you know this season can be bringing up right now. And so it's just like I said, giving yourself that, being able to temperature gauge where you are, where you want to be, right? Um recognizing if things are way too overstimulating for you. It's okay to step out and take a breath and just go be for a moment.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. And recognizing where can I invite that gentle self-compassion? Right. Like, where can I invite in the grace? Give yourself grace of going, you know, I don't have the energy today, and that's okay. Today I might need a salt bath, and therefore my kids need to go watch TV. Like, where can you monitor your self-thoughts and going when your brain is going, I'm a failure, I couldn't keep it together, of going, you know what? I made it through the day, and that's enough for today. Like, how can you speak to yourself in kindness and reassurance and non-permanence? Just because you're feeling this in this moment does not mean that you're gonna feel this forever.

SPEAKER_02:

No, that's what I was just thinking. I'm like, come January, everyone's gonna feel different because for whatever reason, the shift of that calendar, everyone's like, new year, new me. But there comes a new vital energy to that. So come January, you're gonna feel different anyway. So it is there is no permanence to any of it. Yeah, right. If I was to say 12 years ago, I there's no way I could even be where I'm at right now because of the amount of pain and suffering I was going through. Um, even though I was a, you know, I consciously grieved and everything, but to see, to be able to project where you're going to be, don't, don't, because you might just surprise yourself. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, yeah. Yeah, and it's taking those one moment at a time. And so let's say you're out with your children and you're looking at Christmas lights, or you go to church, or whatever it may be for you, and you find that one moment in your in your body that feels joy and recognizing that joy doesn't betray your grief and that you can allow those moments of kindness, of joy, of love, and that is okay to sell it, like to allow your body to feel that as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, for sure. And if you find yourself on the opposite end of the spectrum and you're angry all the time and you're yelling and you're just really intense, it's okay at that point to call somebody up and say, Hey, I need a break. Can you come help with the kids or whatever it is? Like that's when you're asking for like self-care, you're asking for others to help you. Sometimes that's it. Like, I don't want to be seen as this angry person, but sometimes we got to let that out. And that's what you're saying with rage rooms and stuff. But we need to always know where we are regulating from and what is becoming a pattern and habit.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

So, yes, there are emotions to go through with anger and sadness and grief and everything, and to let the joy come in. But if you do feel like you're getting stuck in a certain emotion, a certain pattern, then reach out, recognize it in yourself, do some self-recare, self-reiki, go see somebody that does Reiki, you know, um, go to a group, anything like that. Call for some support so that doesn't become your primary emotion.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, right? Like, how are we getting stuck and stagnant in an emotional block? Right. Yes. And then, and so if the anger is showing up, how can I lean into anger? It's not suppressing it. It's when we suppress the emotions that want to keep showing up again and again and again. And that's why I love these rage rooms where it's like, I'm gonna fully allow my whole body to feel angry. I'm gonna feel angry in my toes, I'm gonna feel angry on my hips and my elbows and my earlobes, like let it, let it happen. You know, turn on angry pinky. I have an angry pinky and just let it out. And I love those containers because when you fully allow yourself to feel the anger, eventually you're gonna find whatever is underneath it, and usually that sadness, right? And so you might start out in that rage room, all you're dressed and padded in, so that you can take that baseball bat and and you know, break shit. Like that is the point, right? So you're breaking shit, but at the end, you might be a puddle of tears on the floor. And guess what? You move through the anger of emotion, and it's gonna show up a lot differently moving forward after that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, because remember, emotion is energy and motion. We must shift it and move it and let it out. It's funny, I haven't been to it, um, but we have a rage room here, and then a sip and paint just open it up next door. So I was like, that is so funny. It's like go rage out, and then when you're done, go next door and drink and paint.

SPEAKER_01:

I was like, that's a great You know, I used to have this fantasy of like, okay, you're gonna go to the rage room, and then it's gonna bring you after you're done in the range room, it's gonna bring you through a long labyrinth of self-reflection and like a meditative moot music, and then you're gonna end up in a uh session for a shamanic rigging session, right?

SPEAKER_02:

And that will be great business to have, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Like a five-hour experience all the way through, so that you can move through all of these emotions and eventually get to breath work where we're we're moving and breathing and feeling all of the things so that you can move from these heavy, fiery, whatever kind of emotions they are, and go, I see you, I witness you, I honor you, I'm gonna feel you, and I'm gonna allow whatever other emotion to show up too, and it'd be okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. You'd have like a room full of mirrors where you're doing like that soul seeing, like you're looking at yourself, and then at the end you're getting reiki and you're getting drummed and massages. Oh my gosh. Right. It would be great.

SPEAKER_01:

So in my fantasy world, that is like a room.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm like, I definitely have a fantasy world of like the perfect setup. And uh, I don't think it's ever gonna happen. I really think it's living in my fantasy world. So if anyone out there is listening to this and like loves that idea, please steal it. Make it happen in your area and I'll come visit you.

SPEAKER_02:

But you never know, you know? It might be something that actually does really keep on tugging at you. You're like, you know what? I just need to go get a space and do that and have the labyrinth and be able to do that in our work. Oh, that's actually a great idea. That's a great idea. Not that we're over here like unpacking it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, steal it. You can take it.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. Well, I hope for our listeners out there, this gives you some space to lean into where you are at this holiday student season. If you are experiencing grief or any other emotion of how you can give space to that and know that we are here for you. Um, Chantel is hoping to start a conscious grievers group. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your idea and when it might start if you have those details?

SPEAKER_02:

It is a conscious grieving group, and I will be mirroring what I do here at home in my in-person grief group. But the thing is, is that it's also getting coaching. You're getting Reiki, you're gonna get journal prompts, you're gonna be getting um, you know, tips on how to move through your grief. You're we're gonna go through all of it. It's kind of like a spiritual, it's it's a lot that it gets encompassed, but it's way more than just going and talking about your grief, because I think a lot of traditional grief groups, you get stuck in just, I'm gonna come and talk about my grief. And then what do you do with that? You leave and you don't know what to do with it. And so this is a way to come to get tangible tips on what you're doing with it. You're still um purging your. Emotions, you're talking from your heart, but at the same time, you get to leave with things that are going to help you through your week, through the next couple weeks. You come back, you can share and talk about your journal prompts and everything. It's all Reiki infused, whatever is needed in the moment. It's very intuitively led. So I just allow my higher self, my guides to just say, hey, this is where we're, this is how it's shifting, this is how it's moving. So I meet your needs where you're at. Um, and so we're gonna be starting that here in the next couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. I can't wait. And we'll get more information out to you guys. It will be in the show notes. And um just keep your eye out. That's coming. So if you will find yourself in the holidays in the thick of it, know that you can reach out to Chantel directly and do a one-on-one session, or you can um enroll and sign up for the conscious grief group. Thank you so much for offering that. I think it's gonna be amazing. I think it's definitely gonna meet a need in our community. And I know it's been something that you've been thinking about for probably two years now.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I get so many messages. Like, do you do that online? And it's like, no, it's only in person, but I'm definitely at the place now where I just see such a huge need. And yeah, there's so much information to bring to the table that it's time. It's time for us to grieve different in a way more like healing fashion, I think. Yeah, it's transformational. People change. It's it's amazing. So it's called Through the Veil, Conscious Grieving. So um, if you see that out there in our group and everything, you'll know where to find it.

SPEAKER_01:

Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for sharing your whispers of wisdom with us today, Chantel. And we will see you all next time. Have a beautiful week, everyone. Enjoy the holidays. Bye, everyone. Sending you all love. Thanks for tuning in to today's show, the Wisdom Rising Podcast, is sponsored by Moonrising Shamanic Institute. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Moonrising Institute, or visit our website, Moonrising Institute.com. Once again, thanks for sharing space with us today. And until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.