Wisdom Rising

The Art Of Holding Space: How To Lead Circles With Skill, Presence, and Heart

• Christine Renee and Shantel Ochoa • Season 4 • Episode 16

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The difference between a good circle and a life-shifting one often comes down to the invisible: presence, pacing, and the confidence to hold what arises without trying to fix it. We open up the craft of facilitation and show how to turn your certifications—Reiki, breathwork, hypnosis, somatics—into powerful group experiences that people remember and return to.

In this episode, we’ll explore:

  • Aligning presence with breath, tone and pacing
  • Reading the room and guiding energy toward intention
  • De-escalating conflict and time-bounding emotional surges
  • Somatic and meditative drops that open the heart
  • Creating monthly circles that build community and retention
  • Ethical pricing and the mindset of a spiritual entrepreneur
  • Mixed modalities as a unique facilitator signature

We walk through the real skills you need to lead with heart and steadiness: reading the room, asking empowering questions, redirecting tangents, and de-escalating conflict without shaming anyone. You’ll hear how we use breath patterns, eye-softening, and body awareness to drop participants into a regulated, receptive state. Then we layer in sensory ritual—scent, candlelight, music, drumming—to signal safety and depth, and we map an arc that starts grounded, rises with purpose, and closes clean so people leave integrated and clear.

If you’re wondering how to make this sustainable, we go there too. Ethical pricing, consistency through monthly circles, and designing offers that fit your voice and community are central themes. Mixed modalities aren’t a problem to hide; they’re your signature. We outline our six-week intensive with Sunday skill sessions and Wednesday practicums, plus case studies and business support so you finish with a launch-ready class, series, or retreat and the inner certainty to deliver it.

Ready to step into leadership with grace and structure? Listen, take notes, and then take the leap and join The Art of Holding Space January 18th! If this resonates, share it with a friend who’s been “almost ready,” subscribe for more practical mysticism, and leave a quick review to help others find the show. Your community is waiting for you to show up.

​Through the Veil, Conscious Grieving​: Monthly Coaching Support Group begins January 12th

​She Who Rises​: A 5-Week Tantric Masterclass for Women begins January 13th

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
Website: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/moonrisinginstitute
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moonrisingmystics
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moonrising.institute
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@moonrisinginstitute
Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://moonrisinginstitute.kit.com/spiritguide

Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine Renee and Chantel Ochoa as we dance between worlds of shamanism, mysticism, and energy healing. Each week we illuminate your path to self-sourced wisdom and attune you to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome back to Wisdom Rising.

SPEAKER_01:

I am your host Christine Renee, and I'm joined today with Chantel Ochoa as we really dive in deep on the conversation of facilitation and the art of holding space. And this is going to also turn into a six-week intensive training started this Sunday, January 18th. So all of those links will be in the show notes. It's this conversation really reflects our own personal journeys through facilitation, through both online and in person, and the different ways to do it and all the different avenues. So we we really have a really beautiful, dynamic conversation and we jump right in. The other announcement I would love to make is that we have our She Who Rises, our Tantra Masterclass for Women starting tomorrow night. And so there's still time to join that. The links will be in the show notes. And we also have Chantel's grief group, her conscious grievers group called Through the Veil Monthly Membership, the second and fourth Monday of every month. So if you're interested in that, check out the show notes there. And I hope you really enjoy this episode. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_02:

2025 was definitely um when I was doing readings and stuff, and just in my own downloads and stuff, there was a major timeline collapse. 2025 to 2026, we jumped major, major timelines. And so um yeah, we're we're moving forward. And there's a lot that I think 20 this year is going to bring, not just because of the momentum and things that are coming and what we had to release last year, but it is as that major pivotal point right now. And so I'm excited to see what comes. And even on a health issue, it's like they even just switched um the food pyramid, which I have to say I am super excited about because I've been studying health and nutrition and keto for years now. And to see that is exciting because now it's like our kids are gonna get better food, it's just gonna change so much about the the concept of food, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so there's like this shift happening, and I can feel it. I feel like this last sickness was really like, yo, you're actually fine and you don't need to be on this medication.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Like I'm and how exciting is that?

SPEAKER_01:

It's really exciting, and I think it's it's it's come in a time where I'm embracing more of all of me, of all of who I am. I feel like all of the tantric world in which I practice, it's it constantly goes back to you're not broken, you can love on all of your parts, all of your pieces, all of your shadow. And this is it, like kind of living out loud, right? And so I feel like 2026 for me is like I'm leaning into all of my favorite things. Like I'm I am teaching a um a women's tantra five-week masterclass that starts tomorrow night. There's still time to join if you want to. And I'm also starting on Sunday, this upcoming Sunday, the art of holding space. And it's something that, you know, Chantelle, we've both been talking about for a while. That we really see that there is a desire, a need to move forward into being a practitioner that's holding space for group work. And what kind of circles are we creating? And how are we pivoting from online to in-person? And how are we being able to be in the balance of both of those worlds or in-person, one-on-one, and group, like all of these things. And it was very interesting. I sent out an email last night for those who looked like they were interested in the program. And we had a huge open rate on that email of 70%. It went out to 350 people, and 70% of those receiving that email opened it, right? And I'm like, that just affirms to me that people really are ready to step into their leadership, step into their full role of I am a facilitator. I have all of these certifications. Now what? What can I do with them? How can I put them into use beyond just the one-on-one, beyond just I've learned this to study and heal me. Now what do I do? Right. And so I feel like this is the next step that it's like we've touched on pieces it over of the in the other courses over the years, but not to this capacity of let me walk you through every single step of the way of how can you open up space and create a sense of safety so people can have vulnerable shares and you as a facilitator honoring and recognizing the energy of the room. Like, how do we recognize that? And utilize that the communication of where we people are at to elicit deeper understanding, a deeper going into your heart space, a deeper meditative moment when you need them to direct whatever certification you have into the space.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. It's creating such a um a safe experience and that sacredness that I think people really want. It's interesting because I I'm here at home, I'm doing some things and I'm seeing the same thing that you're talking about with opening the email. Is I was actually, I'm like, okay, for this year, what are some things you guys want to learn? Right. And so I said, and then on that, do you want to online or do you want it in person? Because I have people that are out of town that have to travel in. Everybody's in person, in person, in person. I'm like, okay, well, let's do it. And so, and I already do, I facilitate a lot, but um I thought it's just aligning with what you're saying. People are really hungry for this, they want community. We are a huge community-based um space here already. And so anytime we can pull together, people want to be there. People want to see each other, they want to hang out, they want to have that connection, they want to learn, they want to do the work for themselves, but at the same time, they want to learn how to hold space for others. And what does that look like? And it's kind of like what you're saying, like reading the room. Where is everyone coming from? How are they feeling? And you know, one of the important things too is to be a facilitator that can also help reduce any kind of conflict, that can reduce anxiety, that can reduce um, and that's a skill in itself that we will be sharing and talking about. Because if you have people that come in and they're like, they like to stir the pot or they like to create conflict in groups, and you know, you have to be able to handle that as well. And so it's really important to be able to, in our own strength and our own abilities, to say, okay, I see you. And how can I diffuse that so we can all get along and do this work together?

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And that right there is kind of like the magic that this my upcoming, the art of holding space is is really getting to. It's it's kind of like when there's tangents, when there are side quests that people are going on, as the facilitator, it's your job to hold the intention of the group. Right. And when someone's having big displays of emotion, is it honoring that intention? Is it taking away from the intention? How can you balance the energy of the room? How do you recognize and navigate through projections and conflict and disruptions? Like all of those things, it happens. And I think this is why oftentimes when you you're a certification holder, whether that's in Reiki or breathwork or hypnosis or whatever it may be for you, like you have it and you're like, but could I can I do that? Like, how do I actually step forward into that space confidently? Because so much of it is based on your presence, your confidence level, and really directing the room, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's what it is. It's it's being the leader, it's it's being able to hold that that leadership for the people that are coming and also knowing that alignment is there. I'm a big believer on alignment. And I always, you know, I tell students, I tell people that if you know your alignment's there and you can trust in that, then you don't have to have self-doubt. You can show up in your full power and your full sense of self and share the information that you've learned and share, you know, teach people how to move through it because you trust that there is an alignment there for you. The right people are all gonna come, right? Even if it is like you have to deal with some kind of things. But you know, that's a very that's rare in itself, but it does happen. But I believe that when you know that this is the work I'm here to do, and I'm gonna have I have something to share and teach someone, they're gonna come and they're gonna show up for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right. And I and it's this beautiful, magical piece of when I enter into a space, even before people arrive, that I'm tuning myself with source, with spirit, with the divine, so that I'm in servitude, right? Like I think there's pieces of recognizing where's my energy at? Like it's really interesting. I was, I just recently did a ceremony, it was a fire ceremony for the new year, and I had gotten there early and I was still feeling a little bit frantic of putting all of the pieces together and making sure I knew that the fire was gonna work the way I wanted it to work and all of these things. And my boyfriend and my best friend walked into the room, and I'm still like, yo, guys, I think I need you to go up to the lobby. I still need some time to like do my thing. And and Jim, my my boyfriend just goes, Oh, yeah, just wait. She'll turn into serene Christine in just a moment. And that's funny. That was hilarious because it's so true. Like, there's a point, a pivotal point where serenity enters me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, right, and that is the invitation of being the facilitator. You literally start channeling the information. We're not, it's not me, Chantel, that's showing up. Is it the physical? Yes, and am I there? I'm present. But we're actually we're channeling the information that's meant to come through, and so it is a complete shift in voice and presence and energy and information and knowledge that comes through. It's a higher level, and there's a lot of times where even doing readings and different conversations, I'll have to go back and watch and be like, what did I talk about? Because you don't, you you're channeling it on some level that you don't even recognize or remember what your own points were.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I do that, like I totally resonate with that. And as you trust that process, yeah, right. Some people think it's luck, some people think it's like, how do they know that perfect right question to ask? And there's part of it that's yeah, there's some skill to it, like understanding the purpose of asking what base questions, for example, or understanding how you are energetically directing which way you want them to move, energetically getting them to see the bigger picture or getting down into the details. Like there's some skill sets to that, but once that's very familiar, then it's like I'm just dropping in, and those questions where I need to take them is dropping in from source, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's creating the foundation to be able to align and bring that information in. Right. Yeah, yeah. And again, that's also being in alignment is being able to read and tune in to your audience. Yes. And who what are they there for, right? Because they're co-creating with you. And that's such a beautiful part of it, is that we're all co-creating. So what is it that they need? And I it's like I almost see it like we are in this physical um community, this circle, but our higher selves are all up here, having like a meeting of the souls, like, okay, well, she needs to know this, and I need to know this. And it's the facilitation that starts to come through so that everybody is getting exactly what they need in that in that ceremony. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there. Right. So there's, you know, whether it's small, and we talk about this. It's like, you know, there's months because I do a lot of ceremonies in the month, and there's months where certain things I'll have a full group, and then there's others where I'll have a small group. And those small groups, people always go, Oh my god, this is exactly what I needed. I didn't need a big group tonight. I just needed a few of us. And I'm like, well, that's why there's only a few, because you set your own intention to create what she needed as well, or he needed as well. And I just I find it so fascinating how it all comes together.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. And when you have that level of trust that the divine is orchestrating things as exactly as it needs to go, I'm I'm oftentimes surprised at not just the the size in the class, but also the way certain words come out. Like I will tune into people's stuff or the stories that they hold so dear. Like I it's like I will share an example and it will be someone's exact story that I had no awareness of, like actual physical awareness. They didn't tell me that they had a childhood trauma. And here I am giving an example of their specific childhood trauma story. And I it's just interesting the way that you can tap into and trust that information is going coming through, and at the same time utilizing your these skill sets of communication to understand the group dynamic. How do you drop someone into their heart space so that they're listening from their heart and not their head?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and that's a that's an amazing talent for us to learn to do because that there is skill in that. There is being able to connect and have compassion with others. You know, you have to be a spaceholder that can truly see somebody and where they're at, right? And not to be triggered by their triggers. So that's a big part too. And that's where like being that hollow bone comes from, being the master of self, going through your healing process as well, so that we aren't being triggered by others. So when you're being able to channel that message or feel that message that needs to come through, you can tune right into them. And that's being very connected to other human beings and saying, I see you, I hear you, I witness you. Yeah. And that gives them such a great, beautiful place to be able to sit in in their own serenity. They they can come in and really feel like they can surrender because they are being seen, they are being heard. And um, having a facilitator that can do that, because I have sat in many circles, and when you have a facilitator that's kind of aggressive, it's not fun, or not so much aggressive, but you know, very to the point, and they're like, hurry it up, hurry it up.

SPEAKER_01:

You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down, slow it down, right? And I think there's there's so much, like I oftentimes I have like a real natural disposition for anxiety, right? And so oftentimes, whether this is online or in person, I have the same set of breath work that I do with classes that I know is gonna drop me in because it's like a muscle memory for me, right? So we take our three nice deep breaths, inhaling through the nose, exhaling through the mouth, releasing and letting go of what no longer serves me. I'm doing that for me, you guys. Like I know what I need to tune in and tap in. And then I'm taking three nice deep breaths, inhaling through the nose, exhaling the nose to align to my truest, highest self and giving permission to everyone else in the room to do the same. Now it's like understanding how to utilize the language, the skill sets to help someone drop in deeper. There's so many ways to do it. Like I was literally making a list of like I'm I'm part of the coursework is going to be we're gonna have a week on meditative skills and somatic practices. Like, how do you do this to guide someone into a deeper heart space? And I'm like, well, there's this eye exercise, and then there's this breath work, and then there's this like hypnotic skill. Like, and I'm just listing them all out. And I'm like, there are so many different ways. And so it kind of is like once you have the tools in the toolbox, that's where you're tuning into your own self and going, what does the room need? Which skill set is going to be most supportive for this space? And and how do I trust that? So you have the skills, like you have the the techniques all there and ready to go once you move through this program that you might not have gotten anywhere else. Like there's so many different ways of doing it. And how do you get someone to really listen to their deepest, truest sense of self, their their soul, their spirit, their higher self. Like there's so many different words for your their heart. And recognizing that your tone, your voice, your the the pace of your words, all of that, that's a skill, because that's exactly what you're talking to. When you have someone who's rushing through it, it's like they're reading a script, but there's no soul to there. Right? Like I can give my scripts out. Here's a meditation, here's a meditation. But if you aren't really tuning into what's how does the words need to come across and at what pace and at what tonality, that that's the key that's that we need to practice.

SPEAKER_02:

You know what I really like about what we're getting ready to offer too is as you're making your list, is on the other, you know, not just those were there is a reason why we rub our hands together, we activate our Reiki and we act activate the energy. Taking those deep breaths, we connect with our heart center and bring in gratitude and love and all of that. But we also, you know, like for me, when I start getting into ceremony, what works for me is um one, that, but two, what do I like to burn? You know, so that the sensory of smell, of bringing in the sage or the polo santo or capal or whatever is being burned, the lighting of the candles, the sit setting in, you know, the setting of us being encircled, the music that comes with it. So I know that by the time we're done with this coursework, we're gonna give such a big list of options that people can really tune into. If you're not into breath work, but you're into movement or you're into meditation, or you're into, you know, like I said, burning things or creating altars, crystal altars, doing grids, whatever it is, there's so much that's gonna come forward from this, and it's gonna touch everyone somehow, somehow, and go, you know what? That's what I want to do. I want to create that kind of space right there and create this beautiful way of holding space for others, for others then to say, I want to come back and learn from you again and again and again. So it becomes something that you can offer every single month. Because that's a whole thing. It's not to be a facilitator of a one and done. It is literally to be able to say, I hold this every month. I can do a moon ceremony every month. I can do, you know, a women's group, I can, whatever it is that's on your heart to do. And the people will keep coming. They might cycle in and cycle out, but they will keep coming because you are teaching them one, how to connect with themselves, but how to connect with each other. And that you got a lot of great information to offer and an environment that allows them to come in, to relax, to restore, to let their nervous system calm down and to leave feeling really refreshed and empowered. Right. That's the goal. The goal is for them to leave, just like they do leaving the Reiki session, just like they do leaving the shamanic session, you know, is they're leaving like, man, that was worth everything I put into it. Financially, mentally, emotionally, physically, everything, right? And then they go and they take that into their world, and then they come back and they refresh with you again next month.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and then they have such a profound experience that they're telling their friends.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. And so I mean, like, yeah, they go and it ripples out, and then they start bringing people with them. And it's just this is an exciting thing to be able to offer, especially for people who want to facilitate, they just don't know how to start, right? Or don't have a place. And that's gonna be a part of it too. Yeah, like where can you go to hold space? Right, right. Like, dude, go sit in a park if you need to, like, but those ideas will be coming as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And I think that's one of the things about the way I'm offering this first facilitation class. Like, know that there's gonna be three sets. We're having this one, I'm predominantly teaching this one. Chantel's gonna come on as a guest to help me with some of the business classes, but there's gonna be two more. So I'm really looking forward to Chantel's, where it really is the aesthetics. It's really like creating the ceremonies, it's the smells, it's the it's all of it. And this one has like I you can I can see how people are gonna come into this and are ready to start implementing right away. Right away. Like you will be able to take whatever certifications you already have, mix it with the skill sets you're learning here, and going, I I've got this. I'm gonna leave confident and ready to go. And then each time you take the next facilitator training, it's just gonna bring it to a deeper level of confidence and clarity and space holding that you weren't able to do before. So I just I'm really excited. I'm really excited because I finally am and boiling down what it what it is that facilitation includes. Like if facilitation is to make it easier to have transformational experiences, what does that look like? And it's gonna be a two-part each week. There's two classes. So Sundays we're gonna be doing a deep dive on the skill sets, learning the skills of communication, of holding space, of redirection, of meditation and somatic skills. And then on Wednesdays, the class is really gonna be on doing the practical practices, like having a practicum of okay, we learned this meditation skill. Where am I gonna actually practice it? As well as case studies and business review. So if you're like, okay, I want it, I want, I've got this hypnosis or EFT, for example, certification, I want to put it to use. How do I create a class? You're gonna get the support to, okay, here's here's the steps. Here's my business support advice of how to put that together into a monthly class or a five-week series or a one-and-done class. Or if you're like, I would love to do a day workshop, or I want to put together a retreat for the summer, how do I do that? You're going to get to have the business advice available to you to really help you move through it. And because this is going to be a small group, everyone's kind of right now what I'm seeing, everyone's kind of in the same position of they're at the beginning phases of, okay, maybe I've done some facilitation before, or maybe I've assisted in a group before, or maybe I've done a little bit of it and I've done some one-on-ones, but I'm not fully stepping into my true authentic, I am a facilitator or I am a spaceholder. And so whether you have a lot of experience doing one-on-one, but you're you haven't taken it to a place of how can I create a business around this? How can I ethically make money around this? Which a lot of people don't want to talk about, but it is a dynamic, a part of when how are we shifting in from Reiki is my hobby to Reiki is a career.

SPEAKER_02:

And we need to step into that like spiritual entrepreneur who is able to say, This is my business, this is what I do, this is my soul led. Like, you know, it isn't about keeping us small and restricted and um thinking like all we can do is help people in their healing, and there's no more beyond that. No, this is huge because and this is how I I've been able to, because I have a lot of people um that ask because they're looking to advance, and then how can they move beyond the well, you should be able to offer this for free, or if the prices are too high, or whatever. And I'm like one of the, you know, like when you're what first of all, when you're talking prices, this is really drop in. And what is your price point, right? This is going to be an inner voice that you hear within you. And if you feel like you know what, you hear a certain number and that just feels lacking, raise it up just a little bit. 10 bucks, you know, 15 bucks, that's a hundred dollars, whatever you feel, right? This is an inner conversation, I feel, with your price point. Then when you start to offer that, recognize you're not, you're not getting paid for the services that you like the gift that you have of offering, but the time that you're giving. It's your time that you're being paid for. And I think this is the misconception out there is that, well, if this is natural, if you're naturally doing this, you should be able to offer it for free or for a reduction of price or whatever. But you know what? When you're in there and you're working hours every day, you're working 30, 40 hours a week. No, it's your hours that you're being paid for. It's the time that you're showing up for. It is being able to sit with those people and hold them in their most like fragile moments sometimes, right? I mean, and and then watching that transformation. And it's almost like I want to get to the place of do you want to give that to a corporation, to like big pharma or to you know, all the doctors and everything we are used to? Or are you able to give it to your practitioner who is a one person most of the time in their own business? And they're helping you make profound changes in your life because they're coaching you through it, they're leading you, they're guiding you, they're mentoring you, they're showing up for you day after day. There's conf like phone calls in between sessions, there's containers being created, right? Like we don't just sit here and think of like, oh, I'm just gonna show up for a 15-minute meet and greet and then write a prescription. No, there is hours invested in people. And so for me, I'm like, no, it's it's okay to one think about yourself as a business person because we are right. We're we're paying for facilities, we're paying for to the aesthetics of our space, you know, our certifications, everything that's coming forward. And it is time to be able to take all of that and say, this is what I have to offer, and this is what I can teach you to do, and this is what I can guide you to do. And I really am like all about like pull that all away. I've even like coined in my own group Reiki Plus, because I'm like, we are I'm tired of hearing, like, oh, you do Reiki, but you can't do that too. I'm like, you know, no, we can't, we can merge it all together. And that is the Reiki Plus. What are you bringing to the table? How can you bring your certifications from your breath work, from Reiki, from shamanism to, you know, tantra to, you know, conscious living, whatever it is that you have to offer, bring it all to the table. Because it is that time right now. We are bringing in wholeness and health and wellness and thought and everything. It's time to bring it all to the table and have like a little bit of everything. You can throw in cards, you can throw in the shamanism and the burning and this and that, and feel really good about yourself that you have been guided to learn all of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And I think there's that value in all of those previous trainings, all of those sort of certifications, all the study and the time that you have put in in your past to bring you to this moment today of going, I am a mixed modality practitioner. And there's nothing wrong with that. I don't, I really have the same energy and passion that I hear in your voice, Chantal, of going, we don't need to segregate everything.

SPEAKER_00:

No, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Source led us to take all of these things. What if we mush them together, mixed our modalities, and what does that look like? And that's why everyone's classes can be different. That's what is what drives people going. I want to go to a Chantel class, I want to go to a Rebecca class, I want to go to Tom's class, whoever it is, because their unique makeup, not only in their persona and their spirit, but also all of their certifications leads them to what they offer and how they offer it. So you might be doing cards as part of your ceremonies that I might not be because it's not as strong in my background, right? But that doesn't mean I'm not gonna add in a little somatic dance at the start of my class or something, right? Like, yeah, you get to come forward and your unique gifts and how does that play out in okay, I'm gonna create a experience that's uniquely mine with all of my background, and what does that get to look like?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it very much is that is having the experience and offering that experience. And and you know, we can all take the same course, but we're all gonna leave with our own identity of what that course meant. And that's why it's okay to even if you're like, oh, everybody does whatever technique, right? Yeah, but what you bring to it is what makes it unique. Now go run with that. You know, it's not like we're overloaded, you know. I always think because of where I work and how everyone I communicate with, we're all thinking the same way. And then I get back into like, you know, everyday conversations. I'm like, oh yeah, you guys don't even know what I'm talking about. That always surprises me because I am so surrounded by like-minded people and the spiritual realm and all that. And then I see people that are like, what are you talking about? What is that? And I'm like, oh yeah, there's still a whole world out there that needs to wake up, that needs this information. So we are not inundated with this. We are not like, go out there and make your niche, your little your your space and your community and know it will work for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And this is the kind of program that's gonna help you to do that.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

Because we're gonna have all the tools to say, there you go. And if you have something you want to bring to the table, because conversation will happen, that too is a big part. That's the power moment of it, is to awaken that side of yourself that goes, I can do this.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Right. And that's what that's what's needed is this level of this is my destiny. This is exactly what I'm meant to be doing. This is why I've been led down this path again and again and again to learn these things, to have these experiences. Like, I don't know how many times I go to different groups and different offerings because I'm learning from their facilitation. I'm watching them facilitate and going, how would I have done that differently? How how what resonates and what doesn't? What am I noticing as someone watching someone else facilitate? How is a room being held? Is it being done well, or is there something that's missing? And those are the types of questions when you come into this type of container of training, of going, watch, watch what's happening around you, attend things and notice what you notice. Of going, how was that held masterfully? Or where was it fallen short and people are leaving feeling disempowered instead of empowered? And knowing that, like, well, I really do have skill sets and I'm learning skill sets from this course that can be activated now. Like, there's no need to wait for more training. I have the pieces to put something together immediately. And what does that look like? What does that feel like? And how can I come to class going, look, I tried my first class, this is how it went, this is what I learned, this is where I felt like I felt like something didn't go right. How would I handled that better and having that group space to help learn and share and bounce ideas off of going, okay, I see how that went down. What did you notice here? Like I think I love that case study review. And so this is kind of to help you gear up and go go for it. Do the damn thing. You're meant to do this. And what do you need from the group space to say, we believe in you? Do you believe in yourself?

SPEAKER_02:

And that that is, that's what we're talking about. That's the key part. Because in the very beginning, you might not have the confidence, but the more you show up, the more you do it, your techniques, your skill set will continue to grow. And before you know it, you become a buzzword.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's very interesting when that part happens because it can be very subtle and it can be very quick. It just depends, right? But it's like suddenly you're the talk of the group. You're the talk of like, you need to take this class, you need to go learn from her, you need to do this, because um that wisdom is there. And you know, sometimes it's just even like you can hold a space for people that come in silence. And I've held groups like this. You come in in silence, you're gonna find a place to go. We're gonna meditate, we're gonna tune in, we're gonna do the integration work, and there's no communication. And if you can pull that off, that's powerful, right? And people leave like, man, I needed to sit. And and you know, people don't sit in silence, like really intentionally sit in silence for a few hours, a couple hours, but you have activities for them to do. They're doing the work, whether it's journal prompts, whether it's cards, whether it's meditation, music, drumming, whatever, because all of it is available. Everything is available, right? And so if whether they're coming in and they're having big conversations and you're partnering people up, make it fun, make it active, make it interactive, right? And that's a part of this too, is being interactive with each other. It's really getting back to the core of being human and being connected with your community so that when you do leave and you are, it's like me and you, we see each other eye to eye. I'm right there with you, you know? And that's a beautiful thing because whoever is sitting across from you is a mirror of who you are as well. So when you recognize that, when you're sitting in a circle, the person who's across from you is a mirror reflection to yourself. And that's always interesting too. So there's so many dynamics to it, like little tidbits that are so powerful. And at the same time, you recognize all the aspects of yourself through the mirrors, through the engagement of what's going on in the circle.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And as the facilitator of those spaces to recognize it's my job to hold the intention. What are we coming in group together? Is it supposed to be solemn or is it supposed to be fun and playful? Is it, you know, like you are the driver of the energy? Like, and as soon as you have someone there who's trying to direct the energy of the room, it's like recognizing that and how do you bring in the harmony to rebalance it out? It's really interesting that you bring up mirroring because I recently taught, I was recently facilitated a class on mirrors. And it was not only an intimate group discussion, a cacao ceremony on, I'm trying to remember what the topic was on I love myself more than. That was the topic. It was really understanding I love myself more than the BS in this relationship. I love myself more than those dirty dishes. I'm, you know, whatever it is. It was about self-worth. And we had this the ceremony set up to have this intimate conversation and then to go into silence with a mirror. And so, but it was while the conversation was being had, recognizing we were mirroring each other and noticing what was being projected and what was being felt in the room, and how was that being handled? And now, okay, we're shifting gears and we're all gonna take a mirror, look away from one another. We're not observing each other in this, we're observing our mirror and what is being elicited in this guided prompt journey into oneself.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's why I love those. I love bringing in mirrors into circle because it really does help people to see. Their inner voice, their inner self, right? We might look at ourselves, but we don't really look at ourselves. Right. So it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And feeling that confidence as the facilitator to go, if someone is crying, if someone is angry, if someone's having a deep emotional process, it is okay. I don't need to fix it. Let them have their moment of deep emotion. Right. I think there's oftentimes this fear of what if there's trauma dumping and I don't know what to do? Right. And so it's kind of recognizing, like through this coursework, we're gonna be talking about that. What if someone is is trauma dumping? Is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? It what if it's just something that needs to be processed and let out? And then we all take a breath together to let it go. Right? Like there's there's places and spaces of recognizing my energy is my energy, and their energy is their energy, and my job is not to fix them, it's to hold space for them. And there's a difference in that.

SPEAKER_02:

And I feel like it's not about fixing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's not about fixing. And I think there's a lot of facilitators out there that get on their soapbox of like, okay, and this is what we need to do to fix that. And and then they're they're preaching, right? And I'm just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's not, let's not preach at people. There's a difference between recognizing where this lives in your body, where do you feel it inside of your body? What chakra is it related to? Here's some chakra activating actions that you can take away with, but this isn't your inherently broken and unlovable or whatever it may be because you haven't moved through this part of yourself. And let me tell you all the reasons why this is not okay. Right. Like I feel like I've been in immature spaces, and I'm gonna use that word, immature spaces, where you end up getting lectured at of this is my this is my truth, and let me project it onto the group space. And it's it there's a time and a place for teaching, and there's a time and a place of sitting back and allowing the energy to unfold the way it needs to unfold and having the wisdom to know the difference and when is it appropriate.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and that's such an important part of being the facilitator is seeing it because people, when they are having that emotional purge, they're very vulnerable in that, right? Now, I I do believe there's a limit to it as far as time frame because some people can eat up the whole ceremony, the whole time frame, if you know, but we're able to within ourselves to be able to guide that. But you give the space for them to release what is on that surface, right? And to help them get through that just by holding it, just by seeing them, letting them have some tissue, letting them have their moment. And then we, like you said, taking it, switching it with a breath, wiping it away, let's clear it out. And then where are we now? Right. And so what happens a lot of times is that everyone then gets to see not only the facilitator and how the facilitator is going to handle the situation, but also they get to see themselves and that other person. And this is why group sessions is so important because the solo one you can only see from your perspective. Right. And when you're in a group, you're like, I'm not the only one. And that's the powerful part of being able to facilitate that group is to say, hey, come see yourself and others. Because we're all going through the same stuff. It's just a little tweaked by our personalities, but everyone goes through trauma, everyone goes through grief, everyone goes through successes. It's just how do we show up with it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And how do we take those pivotal moments and allow the group to feel a completion at the end? Like, how do you close off group spaces where people are feeling empowered and in their sense of self of going, I'm okay, I'm vibrant, I'm alive. And here's some actions that I'm ready to say yes to moving forward. I feel like the importance of how do you begin a group and how you end a group are equal.

SPEAKER_02:

Like that's what I was just gonna say. Yeah, there's definitely a beginning, a middle, and an end. And that is really important to know. Like, how do you open up a circle, right? Do you call on directions? Do you light a candle? Do you sage? Do you drum? Do you play music, right? Do you welcome everyone in? Do you um, and then how what's the middle point when you really start rising up into it? And the closing, how do you close that out? And all this is gonna be taught. So you're gonna have a whole list of information on how to do all of it, how to write your own directions, how to figure out what that is, how to, is that even for you? Right, right. Not everyone wants to do directions, and that's okay, but there are other ways of doing it as well. So it's like just having the um the ability to say, I'm gonna pick and choose. It's kind of like getting a whole menu of actions, like I want this and this and this and this. And now you go create your own space.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, right. And I think that we've gotten so many questions in different programs that we've offered in the past of like, well, just tell me, tell me what I should do. And it's like, no, you have this intuition, you have this source alignment of going, what do you feel called to do to create? How do you want to make it your beginning, your middle, your end? I'm gonna, I can give you can copycat mine, but the purpose isn't to become a copycat of Christine or a copycat of Chantel. It's to be fully whoever you are. And so the way we have the coursework set up for this first facilitator training, the art of holding space, is that the first week is gonna be facilitation 101 to discuss just this. How do you open space? How do you fill in the space? How do you in the space? And how do you really set the intention and be the facilitator of the energy of the room? And then the second week, we're gonna move into what I like to call chakra up and down communication technique, which is really understanding and reading the energy of the room of where are people speaking from in their chakras? Where are they at? Where are they herding from? And then learning how to ask questions to get them into an empowered space of finding their own solution. So it's not I have the answers as the facilitator and I'm going to kind of like project them onto the class and onto the room. It's you have the answers within you. Let's go find them. And so we're gonna learn how to ask questions to empower the participants to find their own answers. And then the third week, we're getting into basic meditation techniques and somatic practices. Where do you feel it in the body? How do you drop people into that heart space? And then the fourth week, we're gonna get into meditative goals, really understanding how to use SMART goals. This is a really common coaching technique of really recognizing where I am at and where do I want to go? How do I recognize the beliefs that I have and where are their limiting beliefs and how do I change those? And then moving into the fifth week of future envisioning. How do I recognize where I am currently and how do I foresee my future and how do I make it happen?

SPEAKER_02:

I it's exciting to hear all of the attributes of how you know, week for week, because it gives you that future envisioning of I can do this, and you're going to learn so much to be able to hold space, to be able to create that space, to truly stand in your power as the facilitator and to show up with your own voice, your own action. And what do you have to teach? Right. Because in the end of it, it's what's on our heart. What do we want to teach? And you learn so much. And you know, like almost every single topic and spirituality can become a course, it can become a class, it can become a ceremony, right? If you want to focus on the chakras, you want to focus on, you know, the directions, the elements, the moon cycles, whatever it is, wanting a retreat, right? Everything is just you pulling in what's your primary focus. You're taking what a problem is and you're finding the solution, and then you call that to action. And people come for that because they're looking for that. You know, there's people in your community that are looking for you right now. But if you don't step in your power as a facilitator, they don't even know you exist. And that is the part that's so powerful is step up so that the people who are waiting for you to show up, they show up. And it's kind of interesting because in my journey, my stuff happens so fast. And then people are like, You've only been doing this for like a few years ago, like for only a couple of years, few years, you know, six years at this point. And I'm like, Yeah, but mine got so fast because you were all coming. And I had to level up to a point in myself because I recognized the community was showing up. So there might be a press, you know, some people might feel that pressure in themselves. Like, I need to go do this right now because your community is already there waiting. They're knocking on the other side of the door, and it's time to show up in yourself. And what holds us back? Fear, doubt, right? And so we're moving through that as well. It's teaching you too that you have this within you. That voice is ready to come out, it's surfacing, and um it's exciting. It's an exciting time to be able to offer this and to say, I am a facilitator.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and as you do that in yourself, and as you move through the program, all of these techniques you're practicing, you're doing. And so you're having the future envisioning, you're doing the belief change work, going through the meditative goals, you're doing these practices for yourself and then facilitating for others. Like we have the opportunity to practice so that by the time we get to the sixth week of integration, everyone's got the thing that they want to launch, they have the program that they're ready to go for, they're feeling confident, they're feeling feeling clear, and they've done the work for themselves. They know, like they know, like they know that they can facilitate it for others. They're stepping in confidence.

SPEAKER_02:

And then we round it up with the next two parts, which I know we're not diving into that as much today because we really want to focus on the first half. But then the second half is about learning the different ceremonies and the rituals and what can you do with that? And then we go into the business aspect and the aesthetics of it, and what does your space look like? How do you want your space to look? And I yeah, it's very well-rounded. So it's like you get the first part of it's all about me, and then it's all about you, and then it's all about like the we part of bringing forward this whole concept so that people walk in and they go, I really love how you created that. And then they're going and they're getting these ideas for themselves, right? A lot of times it's like, do you want to do candle work? Do you want to make oils? Do you want having some DIY and make and take at some of your ceremonies too? So people leave with something.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm really excited for yours. Yeah, because I feel like I can just see my own strength in this, and I can see your strength in that. So highlighted, right? Like when I go into one of your ceremonies, you really have the aesthetic of it all. And I love it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. But it takes the first part to get to that second part. Because if you don't know who you are and you don't know your voice and you don't know your audience, you're gonna sit flat with a lot of the aesthetics of it and the ceremonial part of it, right? Because you have to have the confidence in you, or you don't even know how to show up. If you can't show up for yourself, it's really difficult to show up for others. So that's why we have it the way we have it too is knowing that the first part is all about getting to know who you are as a facilitator. So then you can turn around and be able to offer that to others.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself. And now that I'm coughing up a storm, I think this is a really good end note of where we are today. So if you're interested in the art of holding space, our first facilitator training, know that the link is in the show notes. And we start on Sunday, January 18th. I'm really looking forward to it. It's gonna be amazing. And it's two days a week. It is an intensive, there is homework, there's all of the things, and you're gonna maintain access to the coursework. So if you want to come back again and again and again to the replays, to the lessons, it's gonna be there for you. So this is a deep dive, six-week intensive training so that you can truly walk away ready to go with the plan, embodied facilitator. I'm ready for this.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, embodied facilitator.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and bring it all to the table.

SPEAKER_01:

Yay!

SPEAKER_02:

Good stuff, good stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, thanks everyone for tuning in, for listening. Be sure to like, subscribe, follow all of the things, share this episode, and we hope to see you in the art of holding space next Sunday. We'll see you then. Thanks everyone.

SPEAKER_00:

Bye, everyone. Thanks for tuning in to today's show. The Wisdom Rising Podcast is sponsored by Moonrising Shamanic Institute. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Moonrising Institute, or visit our website, Moonrising Institute.com. Once again, thanks for sharing space with us today. And until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.