Wisdom Rising

Finding Safety In Sacred Spaces

• Christine Renee and Shantel Ochoa • Season 4 • Episode 21

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What actually makes a group feel safe enough to transform? We open with a vulnerable debrief from a tantric couples retreat—where the intention was beautiful but the container felt thin—and use it to map the anatomy of true space holding. From feeling “muted” to identifying the missing check-ins, we explore how safety, consent, and integration are built through small, deliberate choices rather than rushed practices.

In this episode, we’ll explore:

🌕 Naming desire and boundaries as core skills 

🌖 Why context-rich introductions build empathy 

🌗 Five-minute integration transitions are valued over more practices 

🌘 Simple somatic resets to integrate 

🌑 Reaffirming the sacred container each day 

🌒 How to design meals for processing 

🌓 Upcoming women’s tantra circles and trainings

We get practical fast. You’ll hear simple tools that change the room in minutes: one-word emotion rounds, quick chakra check-ins, collective sighs, shaking and brushing off energy, and five-minute integration windows between practices. We talk through context-rich introductions that include desires, fears, and boundaries so participants can empathize and calibrate. We also share a favorite design move for tight schedules: intentional meal tables—quiet journaling, open processing, Q&A with assistants, and light social a—so connection keeps breathing even when the agenda is full.

Real mastery of facilitation meets people at the gate—honoring sovereignty, reaffirming the sacred container each day, and inviting voice without forcing performance. If you facilitate spiritual retreats, circles, or trainings this is a blueprint for building nervous-system-safe spaces where people can risk, reveal, and integrate.

We also share upcoming offerings: ​She Who Speaks​, our women’s tantra integration circle; ​Mystic Moon Collective​ with a guided shamanic journey; ​Intro to Tantra​; and a Valentine’s Day self-love package designed to activate daily rituals and clear limiting beliefs. Find our complete calendar of events​ here! ​ If this conversation resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe for more, and leave a review telling us one practice that makes you feel safe to share. Your insight might be the exact tool another listener needs.

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#consciousconversations 
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#TraumaInformedFacilitati

Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
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Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://moonrisinginstitute.kit.com/spiritguide

Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive

Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome back to Wisdom Rising. I'm your host, Christine Renee, and I'm joined today with Chantel Ochoa. As I have just returned from my Valentine's Day weekend tantric retreat with my partner, and we really dove into the conversation around the art of holding space and safety. Of how do we curate spaces that allow for integration when there's not much time? And how do we process? Like I really wanted to have a conversation around how people's processing and integration look different and how do we support those differences? So it was really a beautiful conversation, and we have a lot of upcoming opportunities to share your voice. So know that this week we have She Who Speaks starting on Tuesday, February 17th, which is a women's space to discuss and have conversations around sacred sexuality. We will have somatic practices in that in that four-week course. Um, so keep your eye out for that in the show notes. We also have our Mystic Moon Collective this week on Thursday, doing our shamanic journey. This is a monthly membership container that allows you to develop your own intuitive skills and practice. So keep an eye out for that. On Mondays, we have our conscious grievers group every second and fourth Monday of the month. So keep that on your radar as well if you are in need of processing that. And we have our intro to tantra starting next month. We have our facilitator training specifically on ceremonial spaces starting next month. So be sure to keep an eye on those show notes. Make sure you're checking our emails, and we look forward to supporting you and whatever feels aligned for you. And keep in mind we have our Valentine's Day special going through the end of the month. Three sessions with either myself or Chantelle in a container of creating your own self-love rituals, processing through what self-love looks like for you. How is that activated? Clearing out any limited beliefs that are getting in the way, and really holding sacred space for you to come into a space of self-love. So happy Valentine's Day, everyone, and we look forward to supporting you. Welcome, welcome, everyone, for this spontaneous Whispers of Wisdom. We usually do our recording on Monday mornings, and I was on a flight back from a tantrum retreat weekend with my partner and wasn't available because I was on the airplane. So I am coming back with um still in process. And I know Chantel also had a pretty big intense weekend as well. And we are gonna save her processing for next Monday. So make sure that if you are loving these conversations, we'll be back next week at our normal time, which is 9 a.m. Pacific, 10 a.m. mountain time. And so we're doing things a little spontaneous today because of our travel. And I just want to say welcome, welcome, welcome, everyone, to our call, to our conversation. And what's really alive in me is what creates safety and group spaces.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And after sharing a little bit of your experience, I think this is a great conversation to have. It also kind of goes back to last week's conversation, like piggybacking a little bit on that. So it's like a series. This is part two of part one. So here we are. What did we talk about last week? We were talking about facilitating and what that looks like. And now we're gonna share what it looks like when you're in a facilitation group that isn't meeting all of the uh expectations or filling in all the you know dots, the bubbles and everything.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's really interesting. It's really interesting how I feel like there's this divine timing orchestration going on. And I love that you recognize, like, oh, this is just a continuation of the process that we were on last week. And you're so right because I feel like facilitation is on the forefront of my mind and it has been for a while. Like I'm currently teaching a facilitator training class, I love facilitating, and I'm constantly evaluating how am I facilitating? Am I meeting people's needs? What are those needs or expectations or desires? And knowing that you can't meet everyone's everything. And yet, how do you create safety when it's never a guarantee?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. Especially when there's such a big spectrum of people that are coming to ceremony and groups and everything. How do you meet their needs? And how do you approach a facilitation that doesn't meet your own? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It was um, it was pretty, it was pretty interesting the way this weekend went. So the the it was a tantric partners, couples retreat, where the overall topic was touching desire. So this was about really tuning into yourself and going, what is it that I desire? And how do I communicate that? And when someone, when my partner asks their desire, I'm gonna tune in and am I a yes or no for their request? Right. So it's it's a beautiful communication exercise again and again and again of really recognizing I'm available for that or I'm not available for that, and recognizing where you are in that process. So the overall intention I feel was really beautiful. I got a lot of weight, a lot took a lot away from really recognizing where my partner and I are in that process and how we do listen and how we do have growth areas, and so much, so much beauty can come from that process. And recognizing as a group, by the end, by the end of the first evening practices and into the next morning, the words that were coming out of my mouth, like when someone, when my partner would ask me, How are you feeling? And then when I really sat and tuned into what that emotion that was pre most present for me, it was I'm muted. I'm muted.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. And so in how did that feel? That's a very big um awareness, self-awareness. If you are feeling muted within one, your your sexual activity and connecting with your partner and everything, but just to feel muted in general when we are all about expressing ourselves and speaking up and doing all of our, you know, like being authentic to who we are, and now you feel muted.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. It felt foreign, it didn't not feel good. It felt like I was out of my element, it felt like no one was really seeing me, and or maybe no one really cared, and other than my partner, right? And so it's like when I felt muted, I had to really tune in. I'm like, I I am making myself smaller. I'm shutting down my voice because there wasn't really opportunity to share, right? There wasn't these pockets of connection or integration of where where are you, what are you feeling right now? Where do you feel it in your body? Or uh what what's the one thing that's present for you in this moment? Noticing what you noticed. And let's have a moment of sharing that. There wasn't that really felt absent. And because there wasn't an availability to share, the opportunities that I did share, if they didn't feel good, um, if they didn't feel um a good representation of who I was, I felt like I just completely blew my first impressions. I felt like now everyone thinks this of me. And because I don't have an opportunity to really share who I am, and I just felt really, I felt really completely dysregulated on the first night. And it it really did have to come back to communication in the group space and what does safety look like? And what are what is the expectations coming into group space? Right? Like what are what's the what makes things feel safe and who's responsible for what? I'm responsible for me, I'm responsible for my own energy, I'm responsible for my communication of needs, desires, and wants and boundaries. Like I get that, and not having opportunities to check in and communicate in the group space, but ultimately it was not hearing other people. Everyone felt so separate and in their own thing, and I wasn't involved in those things because there wasn't a chance to communicate, I couldn't empathize with other people's processes.

SPEAKER_00:

So I didn't know where the facilitator, because a lot of our you know, audience, they are facilitators on some level or another, right? So speaking from that perspective, it is important for us to look at the whole group, recognize are there sharers? Some aren't. Some want to just be and listen and be involved that way, and then others want to talk and speak and everything. So, as a facilitator, what do you think that what should have been different? Do you think? Should they have asked you, like, hey, you know, open up space for all of that? Because I am big on integration. Integration is so, so important. And it is important to have in those check-in moments of, hey, how are we? Let's gauge where the group is. And if there isn't that, it kind of just feels like it's just a running on, like a run-on sentence kind of thing with the facilitator, just go, go, go. Like they have an agenda, they're meeting their agenda, and then that's it. That's open, close, shut case.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, that's kind of what it felt like of we're rushing to the next practice and the next practice and the next practice. And I'm like, I haven't even processed the one we just did. So I feel like um one of the things that I recognize was in the introduction process, there was no introduction to what is the purpose of you coming to this? It was just your name done in a fun and goofy way that threw me off because I wasn't expecting that. And I think there's part of me that I can really own that I am very used to being in the facilitator role and less so as a participant. So you had a hard time stepping into the student role. I I can't, I it depends on where I'm at, and and usually I can. If if I feel like I am held in the space, right? Like, and I do have a high standard for facilitators, I do. I can't help it. And I don't want to. I feel like what I need and what I want is valid. And I feel like because there wasn't introductions where I get got to feel like I know what everyone's desire for the weekend is, where I know where people's fears are, where I know where people's boundaries are, there was no possible way to empathize and connect with the group. Right. And so had I known like this is my first tantric weekend and I'm really nervous, I hear that from someone else. And then I hear, wow, I feel like this is really outside my comfort zone. And I hear another person's voice that might have been like, I've done this a few times and getting more and more comfortable each time I come, and I can't wait for this week, like just that variety of where people are. It's like, how do you have human connection? And it's in the communication, it's in the share, it's in the I can feel where you're at and I can empathize with where you are in the process.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely. And that is a really important part when you're bringing strangers together in a community, you know, in a circle, and you want them to build a relationship to some level. Because that's the whole point of going to like a weekend retreat too, right? Is you're supposed to leave with some like tantric besties, like, you know, like okay, yeah, I might like connect with you later because we had such a great experience together, but that's really difficult if you're not being able to connect with them.

SPEAKER_01:

That yeah, that was not an intention I saw at all. And that was really um, it was really difficult because the spaces I create, the spaces that you create, the spaces that I'm familiar with, it is the priority. It is the priority to have an energetic and emotional connection with others. And I feel like when I facilitate, like for example, I facilitate a tantra we women's group every Wednesday morning called Feminine Activation Class. And about, I would say 30% of the class is communicating. So, yes, we're doing a somatic experience, but it's front-loaded with what's your rose, what's your thorn, the struggle in your life? What is your your bud, the thing that's coming to fruition? You're you're working on it, you're diligent in the practice of it. And what's your your what's your blossom? What's your bloom? What's your celebration, your win for the week? And recognizing you're the totality of all of that. Like we're all in a struggle, we all have celebrations, we all have things to work on. And the reason why I love doing that is because it's this human connective experience of really validating that everyone has stuff and everyone has celebrations and we get a being witness of that, right? So when sometimes I go into that space and I'm like, wow my God, the road share is taking forever. And then I have to pull myself back and going, that's the point. That's why people come, right? Yeah, the somatic practice is so freaking juicy and I love it. But if I left out the piece at the end of integration of how was that somatic practice for you? What's your takeaway? What's the messaging that you're getting so that you can continue to work on it for the rest of the week? Like there's all of this communication happening all of the time. And so even in a one-hour practice, it's it's a prominent thing that I bring forward. And so here I am like feeling like the main messaging of my body is feeling muted. And so it's energetically, I'm feeling muted. Uh, communication-wise, I'm feeling muted. I I'm feeling uh just small, right? So none of that felt good. And it was very interesting because on the way home, I was talking to my girlfriend. I was processing with my girlfriend on the way home. And you know, she's my bestie. I've known her since childhood. And so um, my son is driving me home. We have a really open relationship. I'm like, you can listen along. I don't, I don't mind at all. And I had this like click, this aha moment of, oh my God, the universe is so funny, it's so humorous how spirit shows up sometimes because tomorrow I start a class, a cohort on what I'm calling she who speaks.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And here you've been muted, and now you get to go and share that experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And it's like I recognize that one, I am a verbal processor. I am. It doesn't matter how much I journal, I don't get much out of it. Right. Like that is not the thing for me. But like talking to someone and processing with someone and processing in a group and having that integration time is so validating and important to me. And so I can see how I went from like, I had this experience, it was difficult, and now I'm coming home to this container where I just taught a five-week masterclass called She Who Rises, right? The right, like we're gonna rise up, we're gonna learn some information, we're gonna do a little somatic practice. And the majority of the class said, we're not done. We still need more integration time. We need more communication. That's what we want you to focus on. Give us more classes, right? I don't think I've ever taught a cohort that said, we're all saying yes to more, please start exactly one week later, another four-week class. And so this one is set up where we do sacred space, we do our rose share, we connect, we communicate, and then we have sacred and sexual conversations. For example, peak sexual experiences, or on another night we'll do sexual inhibitions and we just talk and we listen without any expectations of what that needs to look like. And then we do a somatic practice, and then we do an integration period, right? Like I love how the answer of to what I need was already set up for when I come home.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is when you are in alignment is exactly how it should be, right? And most of us can see that in our own lives when we're in alignment. And when we are feeling disconnected or out of alignment, it doesn't show up like that, right? Because you probably would have felt muted, came home, and that would have taken on a whole different like level of um of processing or your own integration if you weren't already set up to take the to teach this class. Because you might have to process more on a like, I'm not gonna say depression, but more like that playing small. That might have taken a little bit longer to integrate and to go, no, I don't have to play small. I am big, I am expansive. I it is my right to be able to share what I feel and think in a group, you know, just that facilitator doesn't see that, doesn't have that as part of their agenda.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I think it wasn't a part of their agenda for this introductory experience. And, you know, I feel like I came in with an awareness that this could be hard for me. I came in with the awareness that I have some unhealed parts of myself, as we all do. I came into this experiencing experience knowing that I do have sexual trauma. I came into this experience knowing that I would be able to vulnerably share with my partner and process as much as possible in between things. Um, and I I have there's a reason why I teach women. You know what I mean? Like I know that in myself that I tend to lean towards servitude towards women and helping them come into their empowerment phase of their life, right? Like the majority of our students here are female. Yes, we love our token mails and our Soul Rising program. We we love having the men's presence. And I can recognize again and again that I tend to attract mostly women. And that is where I'm most comfortable. And I would say most of the women who have come into our programs have sexual trauma. Even the men in our groups have sexual trauma and to have done midwifery and to have done sex ed facilitation training and to have done um some priestess work and having doing these things, I feel I feel like I do have the tools. I am capable and I need space to do the work, like to do that process, right? Like that's the point of integration. So if we're going from one practice to the next practice to the next practice, and you're not really having the takeaway of what did I get out of that? What did I learn? What was my experience in that? And where do I feel it in my body? And what's the messaging there? I feel like I've I'm losing something because I'm I don't have time to catch up.

SPEAKER_00:

Right now, what about for the people who don't need that integration that want to just go through it? So, how do you feel like you know it needs to be balanced out? Because, like again, I said this is for the facilitators who are listening who get to witness the fact there are both sides, right? So I think I'm in the middle. I like to share where I'm at, but I don't need a long time to do that. Right. I can speak on what I need to say and then also listen and I'm okay with it. But I think in a tantric class, because that is so vulnerable, I think it's different than just coming in for a cacao ceremony or just having a conversation.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Right. And I think there are so many different ways. Like, you know, in my there was a feedback form, and I literally filled up every space on it and wrote completely on the back of floor to the question, suggestions on how my experience. Experience could have been improved because I do have the experience. It's not that I needed to have long discussions, but it would have been really cool to be like everyone to close their eyes, tune into the body, and recognize which chakra is the most activated right now and share that with the group. And seeing the progress through in between every single practice, wow, I feel really in my root right now. And that's really triggering my feelings of safety. Or I'm feeling really in my heart space right now. I'm feeling really connected to my partner, right? Like there could have been something like that. Or it could have been close your eyes and just recognize what emotion is available for you right now. Like, what is that emotion? Where does it exist in your body? Does it have a message for you? Share the emotion, just the one word emotion of where you're at. Watch the progress of that. Like it could have been that was a really big heavy experience for people. Let's all brush off, stomp out, shake it off, and do a grounding sensory exercise. Everyone take a bite of the strawberry, right? And really feel what it is to be in your body, right? Like there's so many.

SPEAKER_00:

Do they? Do they have an energy background? Do they have a recky background or a shamanic? It sounds like they are more of the physical, tantric, sexual exercises versus we are bringing in all the different sensories and layers of, they might not have the chakra language. Or knowing to break. Okay, do they know to brush off energy when they need to? And what I'm seeing with that is if they don't, this is also why we merge other modalities together. This is why we're open to it here too, because when you have different layers and understandings, when you have somebody who might have like a big array of understandings with different modalities, and you do too, you're really reaching the whole point. You're reaching the whole audience versus just one audience. And now you can say, Yes, I need you to brush it off, and I want you to go smudge, and I want you to pull a card, I want you to brush away, I want you to somatic, you know, whatever. So yeah, that's why it's important. And that's why, and just to say, here we totally celebrate that in our facilitators and practitioners to say, no, bring it all forward. Right? Like really leaving your groups feeling like this.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I think that's it. Like a lot of these integration practices in my mind don't take a lot of time, it's five minutes, and those five minutes are key to creating a sense of safety and connection in the group.

SPEAKER_00:

So no Which we did last week as a reminder. So for people who are listening now, they can go back to last week's. We showed two examples on how to take like a five to you know eight minute um dropping in and tuning in. And then I did one that was like like a minute, minute and a half long, just breathing, right? So that you can definitely do it really quick or extend that experience. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01:

Like I think that's it. I feel like if you're facilitating learning these different activating actions, right? Like doing a process where you're beating the bones, where you're shaking off, where you're all making a big vocal sound to like move the energy out of your body, like there something that you are doing that is then not only somatically processing through the body, but giving it a voice, right? So I felt muted, but it had I been like, what emotion do you feel? And let's share that in a group, or what chakras activated, let's share that in the group, or what what's coming up for you now, and just giving one 60 seconds and we all do that. I think that is so incredibly important to do multiple times if you're doing big work, right? The other really cool idea I had was that okay, we don't have a lot of time to process in the group space. I'm like, okay, I that's valid. You want to get through all of these practices. That is a valid point that you want to get through all these practices, and we have limited time. What if the meal time was set up where there's different intentions at different tables for meals? So, for example, like one table of six people could be have a QA about tantra. The next table could be I'm silently processing and journaling quietly. The next kind of table could be a processing table of how are you, where are you at, and having an assistant or two at the table to talk it out. Another table could be like just a get to know you one another, right? Like, what do you do for work or what do you do for fun? And have intentional spaces to do our meals with other people if there isn't time to do that in the space.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And you know, I like that last one because even in groups, I like the idea of what do you do in life, right? Because you know, when we even when we come to ceremony, we really don't share about us. We share about our intention, but we never really ask each other like, what do you do? Who are you in your day-to-day, right? And I think that's so important because you get to peel back a big layer of who someone is. It's not like, oh, I'm just showing up as a spiritual person or I'm embodying my energetic work, but oh yeah, I'm this for work or I do that. I have this many kids. I think that too is really important to get people on the same level to understand who each other are. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And I feel like that once again, it allows you to be witnessed, to be seen, and to empathize with wow, you're coming from the banking world and you're coming into this spiritual space. Is this a big leap for you? How are you feeling about that? Like, whatever you, wherever you're at, like it would be it would be interesting to open up conversations to really get to know individuals, right? Yeah. So I think that like, yes, I'm going through this process, I'm still in process, I'm still in my integration phase, absolutely. And all of this wisdom is coming through, like the idea of, well, okay, not a lot of time. Let's set up tables in a different way, or let's do these types of experiences to help integrate. Like, there's just so many uh possibilities out there of what actually shows up for you to feel safe in the process, and everyone is different. Some people really do well in a space where they're they you leave the practice and you go process on your own, right? Some people are great at that, they're internal processors, they need to take space and come back when they're ready.

SPEAKER_00:

I just know that's not me. Yeah, that's not really me either. I am embracing that other aspect of being the internal processor more now than I ever have been. But no, I've always been an external and not just a one-person communicator. I have to have like five people. I gotta go talk to everybody about how I feel. And I've really been pulling that back because I realize that that doesn't always work either. Because now everybody knows your stuff, and then you're like over it, and they still want to talk. And you're like, oh no, that was all last week. Yeah, I'm done. I'm over it. So I am embracing that internal self and protecting my egg, like protecting what's mine, but at the same time, um again, with integration, especially, and you're with a bunch of women or couples, and you want to know, like, hey, what is working for you? What's not? Did this, you know, hit home for you, or did that create a discord, you know? And a group should be able to communicate those things instead of it just be like moving through the motions. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. It's um, it gave me a lot to think about in terms of what do I need as a participant? What kind of spaces do I need? And, you know, it overall felt fairly secular. It wasn't super spiritual. And that's fine. I'm okay. I would have been more comfortable, even it with it being less spiritual, if the space was held in a sacred container more, right? Like they started, like they had pieces of it, and it just needed to be reaffirmed, right? Like we opened up a sacred space and we made a sacred bubble and we set it up on the first night. And then the next morning we moved right into practice. It wasn't a let's remember that we're in sacred space together. Let's remember what our conversations are about in between. Let's let's remember that we're here for reason and purpose and to come back to our intentions again and again. Like there was no re-affirming of the of our um the spiritual sacredness of the space, even though it was stated once, it didn't, it didn't feel like it really continued. And so it was like recognizing, okay, I really love when we do retreats together, when Chantel and I do retreats together, how the morning practice re-establishes, whether that is with calling in the directions, whether it's it's doing a ceremony for the rising sun, whether it is doing um Reiki over our food at breakfast. Like there's these pieces and you know, recognizing in myself that I am a very spiritual and sacred. I look at things from a sacred lens. And it's not that I'm opposed to not doing that. It's it's just that it's it isn't one of those things that make me feel safer.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's the intention. That's how you live an intentional life, is everything has intention. So if you're opening and closing your circle in the morning and at evening, you have to reopen it in the morning. You have to re-establish that, right? And I also think that it's important. This is why, even for me, when I'm facilitating and for us, we do feedback. We want to hear from you. And I think that's important, you know. And some people, if it's gonna hurt your feelings or something, then yeah, you I think even those people need to know. You need to know how you can improve or what worked and what didn't, right? So maybe if there was some kind of feedback or some kind of, you know, like, yeah, how did this land for you? The facilitator can then improve on their own. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So it was a um a big awareness of what makes me feel safe in a group setting as a participant, knowing, having the discernment. That's really what it came down to. Having the discernment of what I'm available and not available for and future tantric group experiences, right? Like I know what to ask for now. And this, you know, I had been on a what got me on the tantric path was doing an all-women's tantric retreat. And it was a week long. So it's a different container because this was a weekend versus a week long, and there's very different container. There was a lot of sharing and recognizing that the the container of opening and closing space every single day was top priority. That the women there was like, I am a fiercely holding the sacredness of this space. I am your divine protectors in this moment, right? Like that was their energy. And just feeling that energetic awareness and groundedness and solidness of that, um, really the Shiva role of conscious awareness, of really recognizing what it means to be a spaceholder, set me at ease, right? And you know, this weekend, I very different scenario. And I, there's two main facilitators and four assistant facilitators, and I zoned right in on one of the women who was an assistant facilitator, and like she's the priestess in the group. She is fiercely determined to do this to hold space. And so, like, there was this pillar of like, I can feel her energy and how serious she takes this role and know that if I needed her, I could go to her. Whereas everyone's was like a quote unquote guardian of the heart, and I could come and talk to them about stuff and process with them. But it wasn't really um, hey, this is a break. If you need to talk to a guardian of the heart, know that our four facilitators will be in this area so that you can process with them. There was none of that, right? So it's like this beginning intro, I'm a guardian of the heart, but then there's not an invitation to utilize the resource.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. Yeah, yeah. So there I it does sound like there's some um good feedback that they could receive. I know if they're open to it. Um because I think when you are coming from a facilitator's position, yeah, but you're actually putting yourself in the recipient. You're putting yourself as the one that's receiving the student in the group. And I've been there. I have absolutely been there. I'm used to being the facilitator. And then when I have to take the student role, um, it is a lot different, right? But when I was in it the last time, I really had to tell myself, like, okay, I am being the student. But what was funny is sometimes the facilitator forgot that I was a student and kept trying to pull me in to co-facilitate. And I was like, well, that doesn't work. Like I'm trying to be in this moment of processing, and now you want me to take notes and do directions and all this stuff. And so you really have to have that boundary. Yes. But it is also flipping the hat on ourselves and saying, I'm here to learn, I'm here to receive. And so I'm gonna take it as it is. But when you feel like there is um some missing parts for yourself, yeah, that's hard because it's kind of like you're now you're leaving with this whole sense of like sense of baggage. Like, now what do I do with all this? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01:

And there's not a lot of facilitators in Bozeman where I'm located where and there probably are actually. There is so many events in Bozeman. So I should I should say this very delicately, but I haven't been in spaces where in Bozeman where I felt like um I was really being held well. And so it has got got me to a point of like I'm not participating in all the things that I could be participating, because oftentimes I'll have that happen to me as well, where the facilitator looks at me and like, well, you know, you know this better than I do. Like, here, why don't you describe the chakras or whatever it may be? And I'm like, that's not, I don't want to, I if I'm here. That's not why I'm here. When I'm a participant, let me be a participant. And I there's I'm I keep going back to like my original tantra week long. Like when I was there, I did a really fantastic job of being the participant and really being the student and being in my own experience and feeling very different than all of the other um participants, like still being my very unique star seed talking light language, being my own weirdo. Like I could do all of that and be different and yet still feel completely accepted and feel like the group was honoring me and witnessing me for right where I was. And that allowed me to drop into the practices deeper, right? So it's it's a very interesting thing. And I think there's still a lot of takeaways. So I I I don't want to, I don't want to feel like I'm bashing. I just want to feel like recognizing my takeaways of when we are offering retreats together, when we're doing moon rising retreats, when I do end up doing the tantric retreats and what those are gonna look like at some point, then I'm keeping these pieces in mind, right? It's a having that mindfulness of this, these are the lessons and learnings from my experience at this point. And I feel like there's there's still things in process about my own journey, about what it means to be the, you know, like if you have Shiva and Shakti, Shiva being the very energy holder of the space, the conscious awareness of the space, the mindfulness of the space, and the Shakti, that is the flowing energy. Which role are you in? I'm recognizing how those present in my life and how easy it is for me to be the Shiva, right? Like spaceholder, you got it. I can, I can do that.

SPEAKER_00:

I can do that.

SPEAKER_01:

I can I know how to do that. I know how to do that very in a very public way. And recognizing too that my inner Shakti, my inner divine feminine, knows how to be fully in that energy privately, but she does not feel safe in that role publicly. And what work is still available for me? And is it a desire? Like, how much of my feminine essence do I really want to share or like want to, desire to? And and like not really feeling like how I am needs to be fixed. Like, I like the way I am, I like the way I show up in the world. I don't necessarily want or need or desire to change that part of me. Like, if I want to honor my inner Shakti, that feminine essence, energy flow of who I am, then there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00:

Right for sure. Yeah, yeah. So at least you have the takeaways, you know, from this experience to one show you what you want to present in your own stuff, but how you're also showing up in the world. Yeah, you know, and that's a big lesson in itself. Because sometimes we don't even know that. Some people don't even know how they show up, they don't even know themselves well enough to know that part. So it when you really start to learn who you are and how you show up, and at the same time, like to be able to facilitate, to hold space. And that's a big thing too. Not everybody knows even what that means, right? And so I love that that is even something that we can share on and that we can teach on and say, this is what it means to be a sacred, you know, spaceholder. And and if you aren't, there's a way of training yourself, there's a way of being in it and embodying that, right? And it's important, it's really important because when you have, if you're able to hold that sacred space, the people feel really safe and comfortable in that. And that's what's important. You want your people to feel safe, you want them to know that no matter what is shared, it's confidential, it's between you and the group, that um that energy is solid. It's solid energy. You're not gonna have some energy attack. Like there's a lot that goes on with being a sacred hold like um spaceholder. Hold space is yeah, spaceholder is to be able to um listen, to be able to speak when you need to speak, right? To share when you need to share and hold back when it's time to hold back. So there's so many different aspects, and I know that's gonna come up in our ceremonial facilitator program that's coming up, but the second part of what you got going on right now, but it's really important because I've seen a lot of people that want to hold space and either they're not comfortable or confident in themselves, or they just run with the show with their own ego, their own self, their own agenda, and that doesn't work either.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. It's like, how can you allow people to have agency, sovereignty of their experience and be it almost feels like wisdom holders, right? Like, how can you be the temple keepers? How can you be this the sacred space holders?

SPEAKER_00:

And you're meeting people at their gate, is what it boils down to with it. You're meeting people at their gate and you're helping them, you're guiding them through it. Because if you if people get stuck at their gate, that means that they, like I said, they they're not confident in themselves or they're holding on to their past, their baggage, their trauma, all their things, and they're too afraid to venture through the threshold because they don't know what's on the other side. And if we're able to meet people there and say it's okay, it's safe to transition, it's it's safe to move through this processing of self, that is being able to hold that space for people. So then when they walk through, they go, Oh my gosh, this is so much better than I ever could have expected. You know, even though there might be shadow work and dark nights of the soul and all that, but a sacred space holder gets to really sit with the people, you know, at the fire and watch them go through and rise from the ashes and everything. And that's really what all these things are is us holding that for people to walk through their own transmutation, their own transformation. And it's a beautiful process to experience. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I love that. And I think that's a really great place to end note of recognizing, you know, true spaceholders, sacred spaceholders, they're meeting you at the gate, they're meeting you where you're at and what you're ready for, and and and allowing you to feel into it, meaning like whatever emotion arises can be expressed and it's not going to be suppressed. Right. And so letting yourself be fully available for what arises and Just being held in that and not trying to fix it or change it and just let it move through the body. And so I'm I'm I think it comes back to I'm so extremely grateful for what we've created here at Moonrise and Shamanic Institute that I am absolutely enjoying my women's tantra work and the the intro, the the um women's circles I've created. The She Who Speaks tomorrow night is our four-week tantra integration circle for women. And anyone is available to come into those beautiful conversations to feel, to speak, to listen, to be witnessed. And I'm really excited myself to be in that because those are those are just being held containers. There's not a lot of direction in them. It's let's bring a topic and see what shows up in this. And um, knowing that we also have our intro to tantra, that is a co-ed space with my partner and I will be facilitating that again here on March 11th. So if you solo or you in a partner relationship want to come in to learn how to have sacred space conversations, if you want to know how to breathe, move, sound, and understand how to create sacred sex lives, uh, it's it's beautiful, it's wonderful. And I love the way we can facilitate these things. And I look forward to many retreats in the future. If you have, I'm just putting it out there because I really need the universe to hear me loud and clear. I am looking for a retreat space so that Chantel and I can be offering retreats, so that I can be offering other retreats, tantric retreats with my partner. And um, I'm just throwing it out there.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that sounds good. Um, I also want to put out a reminder that this Thursday is our Mystic Moon um collective. And with that, we are doing a shamanic journey this Thursday. So come and join me. This is our third week out of our four weeks in our month. Um, but this one we will be doing a shamanic journey where we will be opening our um our sacred space, calling in the directions. We will have a um an agenda, a location for you to journey to. We will do that as a collective group. And um, and then we have an integration that will immediately follow of doing our shares and our interpretation of what that's all about. So that is coming on Thursday. Um yeah, we got a lot going on. We all happening here.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yes, yes. It's so true, and I'm loving it. I'm loving that. We've got numerous different ways to support you, whether that's in your grief, whether that is in your intuitive development, whether that's in your sacred sexuality, whether that's in your facilitation, whether that is understanding your shadow and working with the archetypes. Like, I love it. I am so happy with what we've got going on over here at Moonrising. And I just am like, ooh, what's next? I can't wait to what us to do. Soul rising again, that might be on the horizon again here soon. So um, if you're interested, or if you want to just jump on a connect call and be like, this is where I'm at, what program would best serve me? Let's do it. Like DM me, shoot me an email. Like, I am absolutely available to go, this is where you're at. I see you in that. And let's figure out which masterclass, which program, which coaching package is gonna be the best fit for you. Now, Chantel and I are offering a self-love Valentine's Day special. I'm also gonna throw that out there. It's three sessions with either of us for$888. And we would love to support you in this 21-day container so that you can activate your own self-love rituals, that you can process through any limiting beliefs, that you can learn the activating actions that are gonna work for you and set up your own rituals, your own ceremonies for your own self-love journey. So know that that is also available through the end of the month to sign up. So February is our self-love uh Valentine's Day special is also available. Um, if you're not on our email list, get on your our email list. Um shoot me and let me know if you want on or go to our website at uh Moon Moonrising Institute.com. And that will have on the very home page, we'll have a way to sign up for our newsletter list because we'll be sending out information on all of the things every Monday they typically come out. And we just love, love, love supporting all of you listeners out in the world and hope that you are finding your places and spaces of spiritual growth and integration. So lots of love to everyone out there. Sending lots of love.