The No-Tissues Rule And Other Retreat Plot Twists

Something changes when women stop performing and start telling the truth in a room that can hold it. We’re back for a “Whispers of Wisdom” catch-up to share what our summer retreats taught us about real community, real healing, and the kind of sacred space that actually follows you home. If you’ve been craving deeper connection, women’s circle energy, or a retreat that feels grounded instead of chaotic, this conversation is for you.

We talk about why women gathering in ceremony can feel like a lost art and why it’s returning now. We get into the practical ingredients: clear group agreements, confidentiality, self-responsibility, and the powerful shift from rescuing to witnessing. We also share a retreat detail we love, the no-tissues agreement, because it gently trains agency and nervous system safety without shutting emotions down. 

You’ll hear behind-the-scenes stories from our own women’s retreats, including a four-elements arrival flow, cacao, sound bath, mirror work, journaling, pendulum basics, DIY oils, and the importance of pacing. Christine also shares a somatic emotional release ritual from Austin, followed by long integration rest and Reiki to help the body process what it just moved. We wrap with what we’re building next, including potential retreats in Hemet, California, Austin in the spring, and an MLK weekend Sacred Tantra retreat where integration is the heart of the work.

Subscribe for more shamanic Reiki, energy healing, women’s retreat wisdom, and sacred space practices, then share this with a friend who needs a softer place to land. Will you leave us a review and tell us what kind of retreat you’re craving most?

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Transcript

Welcome And Whispers Return

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the podcast of Moon Rising Shamanic Institute. Join shamanic Reiki practitioners Christine Renee and Chantel Ochoa as we dance between worlds of shamanism, mysticism, and energy healing. Each week we illuminate your path to self-sourced wisdom and attune you to the whispers of wisdom rising from within. Welcome, welcome, welcome. So Chantel and I haven't done a Whispers of Wisdom in a hot minute. So if you are new to Whispers of Wisdom, it is where we come on, we jam about what's alive in us, what is currently going on in our worlds, what's inspiring us, what actions we're taking, what we're offering, all of the things. And so it's been a minute for us to um to be here together. Today, Chantel and I wanted to get in, get on to reconnect because we're both been um in our sweet spots with retreats, and we wanted to share some of that magic with you. So thanks, Chantel, for joining with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

It has been a minute, but we have been so busy building in our in-person uh businesses and our lives and everything. We have so many things that have changed over the last couple of months that I think it just feels really natural and organic for us to come on and be like, oh my gosh, what are you doing? What have you been doing? And yet we still come weekly and work with each other and and we're building moon rising and everything. So there's just been a lot going on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yeah. So I just I literally didn't even know you had a retreat going on until I saw someone posted a reel about it yesterday, uh at TikTok. And I was like, oh, cool, that looks amazing. And um, I literally just posted about my retreat that I did about two weeks ago, maybe it's three weeks now. I just posted that a few days ago. So we are just now catching up, I feel like, with all of the fun, fantastic things that were going on this summer. So yeah. How do you want to start? Do you want to tell us a little bit about like right before we got on? I had to go, shh, shh, shh, shh, don't say it yet. Because she was starting to spout her wisdom. And I'm like, wait, we need to go live. So don't share it all right now. You need to wait, wait, wait, wait. And you were saying about women's work and how women coming together are so magical. And I'm like, tell me, tell me more in a minute.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

You

Why Women Need Circle Again

SPEAKER_01 2:29

know what? It really is. Um, the more I sit in ceremony and circle with women, I recognize this is such a lost art that we we need, and and men need it as well. Um, but for women, I know it's a way for us really to come back into our feminine, come back into like just being natural to nurture ourselves and nurture each other. And I know that it's something that forever women have done. And I don't know why with our new age and our, you know, society norms and everything, women don't. And so when we come together and there is a gathering and a circle, and and we are in these conversations, and we're doing cacao and and just all the magic and medicine we bring forward in every ceremony that we do, women open up and they they come in with a grief, with a something that's heavy, and they leave so light and ready to go, like embark on life and take on their family and show up more empowered. And it's just like, I don't even know, like, even moon new moon this last week. We our women's it it was all women, and it turned into a beautiful conversation of what we're going through. And women went home and and they're like, you know, they're inviting their husband back into their bed and they're they're engaging with their children in a different way, and they're all this stuff is happening. And I was like, oh my gosh. And I think it's because we just need permission, give ourselves permission to show up. And there's just so much fear, I think, in in a lot of women to not show up. We're wearing too many masks and we're hiding ourselves. And then when we give ourselves that permission, we can show up in ways that that are never seen. And so I'm really seeing this in my community right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Right. And it's the showing up in exactly who we are, exactly. Right? It's like who is the essence of who you are? Where is your core essence, your core truth, your core wisdom, your core personality? Right? How does that want to show up? And I think you're right, there's a bit of um masking or taking on the archetypes or roles that we're accustomed to. And when we get to drop that and just be exactly who we are in the moment, then we can return in the more fullness of that essence and vibration into our normal everyday life.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah. Cause I believe that women, we have walked very masculine journeys for such a long time. And there is this call back to home, call back to self and being authentic. And I don't feel that it shows up in necessarily like a family reunion or a fat a family gathering. It really is with like-minded women that can sit together and and say, that yeah, me too. I've gone through that too. I experienced that too. And and through those conversations and coming back to self and doing techniques like soul gazing and looking yourself in the mirror and not judging yourself and seeing beyond the physical, seeing through the eyes and the scope of your soul and being able to take on a sound bath as you know, like it's just such a beautiful experience, and yet it's not done

A Real Life Monthly Circle Model

SPEAKER_01 5:46

enough. Yeah, I guess that's where it is. It's just not done enough.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Well, you know, it's interesting. My um, what comes to mind when I hear this is I was raised with my mom going to a women's circle monthly, and it was a group of probably 15, 16 women, and they met every single month and they called themselves the brides. And so they they started going to this group and naming themselves the brides when they um they kind of stopped having bridal showers. Everyone was married, everyone was having their first set of kids, and the baby showers were done, and but they still wanted to honor each woman every month and treat her like a bride, and they would gift her presents that that that month, and so they would rotate through. And so you get to go once every two years, essentially, or once every year and a half, and then you're like getting gifts again, and we're celebrating that one person. It's like I loved that I grew up in a culture of seeing that my mom would go, she would go and prioritize her woman's circles and honoring one another, and so they might not have been doing cacao, they might not have been doing mirror work, they might not have been doing the shadowy things, but they were coming together to to share about where they were in life and to celebrate one another. And that was a really good, beautiful foundation to normalize in, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

I love that, right? See, and that's something that needs to come back into society, it's just that it's a gathering of women where it's like in a natural organic way of being able to honor each other. And it's not because we're gonna go get drunk or go party, it's because you're just sitting and holding space for each other, yeah, and celebrating.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Right. So they met like I would say for 30 years every month, and then as they moved into retirement, they kind of dispersed to where grandbabies were or whatever it was, and now they get together once a year for a weekend retreat for themselves, and they buy a big house at the or not buy, but rent a big house on the beach and and have intense time for a whole weekend. And I'm like, yes, this is exactly what women should be doing. And and in the counterpart, I think men should be doing that too. Like, I think if men gathered in a way that fulfills them, I think this is the hunting trips, right? This is the fishing expeditions, this is the the breaking out of normal day life. I feel like they have they do that often. And where is the sacred containers for both of these? Right?

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Where is that's funny? At the end of the night, my husband goes, When's my retreat? Where's the men's retreat? I'm like, put one on, put one on, you know, gather it. He was already planning it like you're talking. I was like, Oh, that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Well, you know, it's and it's interesting here in Bozeman, Montana. I think we have more men's groups and retreats than women's groups retreats. And so it's very interesting to see what's happening in our culture. Like we have some co-ed, co-gendered things happening. We have a couple, two or three different men that are leading retreats, and it's like they're doing three days uh kayaking or canoeing down the river as the retreat, you know, there or they're going out into the woods and they're and you know, I'm in Montana, nature is everywhere, right? And then you have these women's retreats, and so we have um women's groups coming together every once in a while, and then we have a really big festival here called Celebrating Women every September that pulls in women from all over the state, and it's about 75 people, you know, so it's a much bigger one, and so it's it's very interesting, like, but where's our where's our core group? And I think we're um two nights ago, Friday night, I went dancing and it was this um sober event, and that's always what I'm looking for. I'm like, where's my sober events? And it was super cool because they had these cold plunge pools and saunas, and then inside we had a huge dance party, and I went, I I was one of the first to arrive with my partner, and it was like everyone coming in, I would say I knew 80% of the people that were there. Like it was like, I'm just gonna dance with all my girlfriends and my good guy friends, and like this is great, and we get to like dance really hard this music, and it felt amazing. And it's like, okay, can we take this group of people and bring it to the next level for a retreat? Right. So I'm always like, I want uh yes, somatic movement. Great, love that. And how can we bring it deeper? So I think I feel like this is what you're doing in your community with your women's groups. This is what I continuously am trying to cultivate and do in my community.

Building Community Beyond One Night

SPEAKER_00 10:34

So I'd love just to like chat like, how was your retreat? How was my retreat? Like what really felt um, I don't know, deepening, what really felt like it was getting to the heart and soul of people.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Um, you know what I would have to say is is just it's it's wrapping it up in the end. It well, it's like each one of us. So on these the summer one, there's four of us women, and we each come and we do something. We're offering our own class or workshop or whatever we're doing, right? And but it's our own ceremonies. And so each one of them is layered and it's giving this different insight, but we plan it in a way that is like we're just in total flow. So it was like it was so hot when they first got here. I'm like, just go swim. Like we had a whole thing, we're gonna get really started. I'm like, nope, go swim. And so they did that, and everyone started chatting and get to know each other because they're all strangers to each other, too, which is really interesting because it's not like um everybody knows everyone. We just are posting it out there, and then I just have people that are just registering, and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I had like three people where I had to actually locate who they were because I'm like, I have no contact, I can't send you my address, I can't do anything without it. So um, you know, I just think that women are hungry for it, and when they come and then you start getting them into it, they're just like, oh my gosh, this is so amazing! They start cracking open, the tears start coming, the aha's, the the knowings, you know, it all just starts revealing itself. And to be the spaceholder for us, it's like just so amazing because who would have thought that, you know, like for me, in a moment in a day in my life that I would be leading a group of women, because in my groups, it's always kind of like catty women, you know. So I've always been like a guy's girl, you know, I've always had like the guys group that I would hang out with because a lot of women were wounded women, and and so they weren't always that fun. And I in some way was probably that way too, but through my own understanding and healing, and what does it mean to be feminine and coming forward and being a receiver of truth and a receiver of wisdom and knowledge and my own self, it's just it's a completely different version that we like, yeah, removing those masks and saying, I'm ready to see me. And that's I think the juicy part is when women are ready to just see themselves, not everybody else, not all the things, but just who they are, their natural self.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Okay, love it. And I totally want to know, like root chakra level, like give me the give me the the itinerary, give me the give me the data, like how many women did you have? You did it in your house. How the fuck did you pull that off? You've got your daughter and grandkids living with you. Like, I I want to know, I want to fill me in on the details. Like, what about work?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

So we there was a total of 20 of us. Um, and then we it it literally like come together, the four of us, and actually on this one, it was two of us that came together and we planned the whole agenda and we're gonna do this

Chantel’s Four Elements Retreat Flow

SPEAKER_01 13:45

and this and this, and we put it out to the whole to the four of us. Everyone's like, Yep, got that. Um, my family's on the inside, they're doing their thing, but you know what? I'm raising my granddaughters and in this energy, and so they're coming out and being a part of it too. And so it's really interesting to watch them and they're they'll sit with us and they're learning how to be in ceremony as well. So, even it's like a couple of the women, they're bringing their teenage daughters too because they're training them to do this work and to be authentic to who they are, and so there was no like separation, it's very much all inclusive. And then actually, my husband had his friends over, and so he's hanging out in the garage or listening to music. And I thought that was pretty cool because even some of the women at the end, each they're like, dude, you're like fully supported by your husband, like he's just hanging out with his own friends doing his thing, and we're out here, and I'm like, Yeah, like exactly it's how it should be, right? Or we can all co-collaborate, but not we don't have to all be together, but we're each getting what we need, and um so we did we worked with the four elements, that was kind of our thing. And so when they first got there, one of the hosts was out there and they were grounding, they were walking on the grass and on the earth and doing that. Then when they came into my courtyard, I was fire, so I was smudging everyone. Then they went around my side yard, and then another one, she was doing um water blessings, and then there was air. So by the time they got in, they were already cleansed and cleared and grounded, and and so then they're just ready, they're ready to strip it all down and go be and do and be women. I love it. So it was like, yeah, go swim, go interact, and go meet each other. And we already had a refreshment and all that going on. And after a while, then we called everyone over and we started our ceremony, but it was like, yeah, turn doing the talking stick, and we did this whole burning thing where um we had shells and and um burning some herbs, and then as they're speaking, they're cleansing themselves and they're saying like what their intention is and who they are, giving a little bit of background story. And then we drank cacao, we gave a nice, beautiful sound bath while they were integrating all of that, and there was just so much. There's journaling, and then there's the mirror, and then there's let's talk, and uh, there's just yeah, there's so much. I did a pendulum, you know, taught them how to use that. They were just so fascinated with that. We did oils, DIYs, so it's very packed. Yeah, sounds very yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Well, and it sounds it's both um, it feels like it was both passive and active, right? There were some parts like I get a witness and I get an honor and I just get a see. And then there's other parts where you're up and you're moving and you're create co-creating your your oil blends, for example. Like there's there's activity and there's quietness.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yes, yeah, and I think that's important. You one of one when you're leading a retreat, you have to have a balance because you can't just be sitting in ceremony the whole time because people do get they need to get up and move. Um, and they want to be able to share and talk and and socialize, but at the same time, we also need to like learn how to hold space for each other, and I think that's what ceremony is teaching women to do again, or you know, just people in general.

Spaceholding Agreements That Actually Work

SPEAKER_01 17:13

How do you hold space for each other? And so it's reminding them, even like when somebody's sharing, we're not chit-chatting over in the side because women get really gossipy, you know, or not gossipy, but chit-chatty. And and so, you know, it's having those subtle reminders that we are holding space and we're listening and we're witnessing right now, and there will be that time where it's your turn and you get to share everything you need to share, and so it's um really being having a strong container that women know they can show up in, yeah, and they know that they can be present for someone else, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:47

And it doesn't take away from them. There's um there was a new term I learned during the retreat that I just gave my co-facilitator had an agreement of no tissues. And that means that if someone isn't sharing, if they're in process and they're crying, your job is not to go shove tissues in their face and like try to get them to calm down. Like it's actually till they ask for the tissues, you're just there to witness, you're just there to honor whatever is happening, and that we're not here to rescue and save them from their emotions, you know? And so it's I love that idea. It's like, yeah, that we have rules against, well, not rules, agreements that we won't crosstalk. We aren't going to interrupt, we're not gonna take over the conversation, and but we're also going to let them be in their emotion. I think there's this is that training of how do we hold sacred space with one another, of going, we've been conditioned to tend to the children, tend to the emotions, tend to tend to, tend to. And it's like, what if we allowed? How can we just allow someone to be fully in their emotions? And if that is angry crying or giddy laughter, like can we honor whatever is showing up in their story and really seeing them for who they are? There's a reason why we mask because if a tissue box is being thrown at us, you're telling me I you can't handle this, you can't handle my story, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I love that. And then what you just let them know that there's no like you give them that instruction, right? And the tissues are there for the women to go and take the tissue if they need it. Yeah, it's kind of like well, I need to do that for my grief group.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Exactly. Well, and I think this is one of those things. It's like, okay, the tissues are available. Here's the agreements in the beginning. We're gonna honor, we're gonna witness, we are not going to give help unless it's asked for. Right. So it's about learning how to self-advocate. I need a tissue, I need a hug, I need all the sisters to come around me and hold me for five minutes. Like if you just assume what the person needs, you might be very mistaken about what they need in that moment, right? Maybe what they do need is to fall apart. Maybe they do need to be a puddle of tears. And how can we allow that in these sacred spaces? So it's like the tissue rule is really a reminder of they can ask for it, they can reach for it themselves or they can ask for it. So it's always like if you need support, please raise your hand and an and a facilitator will come to you versus everyone assuming that they they that we need to take care of one another. Because then you have participants that are jumping in to take care when their job is to be a participant.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, even if it's a subtle like hand on the shoulder kind of thing. Well, and I think what it is is because we, you know, especially in our communities, we're empaths. A lot of people we're all empaths, we're all feeling it. So we're like, oh, we just want to stop the pain. And and then what ends up happening is there's that there can be that transference. So maybe I'm not feeling any kind of emotion, but then I support you and yours, and now my emotion is all activated because I just took on your energy, and so it really is important to like kind of stay in your own bubble, and that I think that is with the opening of the circle, too, is we are in one bubble, but we are in one, like we have our own individual, but we're in one full bubble, right? Yeah, and that way that people do know you do not need to go and rescue anyone. Yeah, it we're rescuing ourselves today, and we're witnessing others be strong in their their own rescuing, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:31

So then women get to really take off their masks fully, right? Yes, if they're like, oh, no one's gonna be upset if I take this off, no one's gonna invite. Like if everyone is in their own energy container, we're more able to to do this. We have this understanding that confidential confidentiality is a thing, that self-responsibility is a thing, that we have these group energetic agreements. This is a thing. And so when we can go. Go in and have these, they kind of feel like ground rules. Then it's like, okay, now we're in the sacred container. Now we can take off the mask. We can allow ourselves to feel what we need to feel. We can move the way we need to move. We can talk the way we need to talk. We can, and I love the that we have these exercises. We have these ceremonial rituals or pieces that are going to activate within us. And then you have this time for integration. And there's this space, right? It's where you take a breath, it's a nervous system check-in. It's a let's talk about what just happened, what came up for you. And I think those are the places where the true learnings happen, right? Like I love the rituals, I love the practices, I love all these things. And it's a space in between that I really find incredibly important.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Integration is so important. It is. It is like the closing of that ceremony, but it is the it is allowing everything to come within you and just to sit with it, just for a moment, you know. Even if you're just sitting and you're just thinking and feeling into everything that you went through for the however many hours you've been doing it, days or whatever it is, integration is not to be rushed. And I think there's a lot of retreats or even just coming together, ceremony, whatever it is, that um there's not enough integration sometimes. Yeah. And I feel like with Reiki, and like when we do energy healing, that's a thing. It's it whether you're in a session, a one-on-one session or a group session or whatever, when you leave, you should feel like there was an integration period, a time to sit and process and feel into it. Not like, okay, I'm leaving and I have all these emotions, and what do I do with them now? No, it's all about processing that those thoughts and those emotions within that container. So when you leave, you do feel lighter. So when the questions and all the thoughts are coming up for the next few days, the next few weeks, you know how to process them. You're not feeling like you were abandoned and orphaned after you went to a retreat. So integration is so important.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Integration As The Real Medicine

SPEAKER_00 24:13

And I think that's what like the way we set up our retreat that the one I just did in Austin, it was a women's retreat as well. We did it over um Friday night, Saturday night. So it was three days. It was Friday evening through Sunday around 1 p.m. And part of it was I don't want practices back to back. I want space in between. I want breaks. I want time for people to do their journaling. I want part time for people to check in and making it part of the culture. Right. And so it was really lovely to like be able to come in every morning and to re-establish the sacred space, calling in the directions again, re-establishing that energetic bubble container, going into a discussion of what a practice is going to be, doing a really deep dive practice, and then having the integration time. We did um one of my favorite practices is called emotional, it's an emotional release ritual. And it is where you very much activate the stored up emotions in your body and you release them. So there is a lot of screaming, there is a lot of pounding, there is a lot of tantrums, there is a lot of, it's very loud. And it really allows everyone in this and the women in the space to take everything that they've pushed down and stored and stagnated in their body and give an exit strategy for it. And so that process can be really intense. And then what we have people do like that process can be it's a full body workout. Like people can lose their voice. It's like you need to really make sure you're taking care of yourself too. And you are fully energetically dumping, right? And so here I am, all these women are doing the process, and I'm giving Reiki to the space and constantly grounding their releases constantly, right? And then when the the practice is done, I have everyone lie down and I turn on some integration music. And I have this really beautiful um music called liquid gold, and it's a channeled frequency. It's very different, it makes your brain go somewhere else. It really lets things process and integrate. And as people are all lying down, then I come around and I gave everyone Reiki. And that part was incredible because because they were so clear, they had opened this conduit of like big release. Then it was like, okay, I'm gonna move around to everyone in the room and give them their Reiki dose. And you could just feel their energy, their bodies would twitch, their heads would roll back, their eyelids would flutter. You know, all of these things were happening. People knew exactly when I was working on them, when I was working on them, right? I wasn't touching anyone, but I was working above them and really grounding out the room, really blessing the room. Like that was a lot of big work, right? And so it's one of the highlights of the retreat that I gave was to give this really long, I think it was like an hour-long integration rest time after that big practice. And then coming back together and going, what did you notice? What worked for you? And it was um a very equal portion of people discussing what happened in the emotional release process and what people experienced in the integration process.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. That's a really beautiful balance because you you know, you can't just be like, ah, and then expect everyone to squeak, okay, you know, right? I mean, you really do. It's like, and that's a lot of work for the body to do. Because sometimes doing this, it feels like the next day you wake up, like you went to the gym and worked your ass off. Absolutely, and you didn't, you just sat in ceremony, but our bodies hold so much in our emotions and our attention that when we release it, it is a it is a full release, and it does feel like we've worked out. Yeah, the legs are tired, all of it is so interesting. You're like, what did I do? And it's like, oh, I I released, that's what I did. Yeah, and in this practice, let all that energy go.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yeah, and this practice is very somatic. You are moving, you are screaming, you are punching pillows, you're doing all of the things, and um, it was really interesting. We had um a gal who missed that portion, and and it was very interesting to notice her energy in the way she taught versus the rest of the group, because everyone else had just released and released and released and released, and she didn't have that opportunity to release. So you could watch her the rest of the weekend still releasing through her stories, and everyone else had already processed, like already moved through it. So it's very, it was very interesting to to have some of these learning lessons. Like this was a very um, we put this together on fairly short notice. It was really meant for Austin people, um, with the idea that people could go home, sleep in their own beds, and come back if necessary. And just noticing what that meant for the group, people who would leave early or show up late and really needed that agreement. Like, just like you need an agreement on confidentiality, agreement of um no tissues, right? Like we needed agreement of presence. Yeah. Right? Like, if you're gonna be here, be here for all of it. Because you could see where things weren't um lining up for people. I had another person who missed the beginning Friday ceremony on sacred communication, right? She was the one who really struggled in communicating, right? It was to have that, yes. Yeah, right. It was just really interesting to watch, going as

Retreat Design Lessons From Austin

SPEAKER_00 30:13

a facilitator, I'm still learning, and I think we all do going, how would I shift? How would I do this different? And I think everyone who attended thought it was amazing, would totally be interested in more, you know, all of these things. And as a facilitator, I'm always like, how do I tweak it to make it better?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Well, I think, and that's kind of what I was talking about in the beginning is that uh retreat has layers, you know, and as a facilitator, we are creating a very intentional space together. And so, and it is layered on top of it. There's a reason why the communication comes in first, there's a reason why the agreements are talked about and discussed and how the container is held. And, you know, there's reasons why every single piece is integrated and put in place the way it is, so that it is in flow, but also so that the people are not missing certain pieces and they understand what it means to do that because not everyone knows how to sit in circle, you know, not everyone knows that that it is a time of being silent and listening and being the witness in that moment. And then there's other times where you get to be loud and you get to, you know, interact and do things, or maybe it's like not this one, but last one. We I had them pair up and we did a couple, you know, pairings where we got into each other's face and we like cradled each other and we just stared in each other's eyes, and and it was so powerful. And then then you switch to another, you know, partner. So there's like these very intimate um exchanges, and then you can get up and go move around, and now we're you know, totally changing in a different way, and so it it is if there's layers and intention with it, and if it doesn't feel like that, then you know that's something feedback for your facilitator, just for our listeners. If you go to a retreat and it doesn't feel intentional, that might be some feedback to give them, you know, but it also depends on what the agenda is, like what is the focus, right? So you can have like a very kind of chaotic flow while you're just kind of do it as you're doing it, but really it is it's it's having an agenda that you might not know as a participant, but you're you should feel like there is a natural flow with your facilitators for sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah, and I think that's it. It's like, and I've seen the other extra extreme where it's not um too loose, it's too structured. Right, oh yeah, right? Like where it's like, okay, now we have five minutes to get to the next practice, there's no integration time, and we're on to the next thing. Hurry, hurry, hurry. And I'm like, that's not feminine enough for me.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Yeah, yeah. You there has to be some kind of uh yeah, buffer zone and and change. I know that where there's a schedule, but you got to be able to tweak it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

And and really read the energy of the group, right? Yes. And I think that's what I'm I can say for sure. I'm really good at reading the energy of the group, especially if it's a fairly small group. Once we're over like 20 people, I have a hard time reading the whole entirety, like feeling all of it. But usually in the small group, it's like, all right, this was the practice I planned. This is not the energy of the group. I'm gonna whisper to my co-facilitator, I'm gonna, hey, I'm gonna switch things up, I'm gonna do this other practice instead. Still gonna be chakra based, but it's gonna be something else. You cool with that? Yes, okay, here we go. Because it's like knowing what has happened, knowing the what has happened with this group for the day, for two days, and going, I'm gonna bring in this other component. We're gonna switch things up a little bit and trust that if the facilitator is doing that, they that they've got it. And there's also this piece of how much transparency do you need with participants of what the schedule is, of what like I'm very um, I really want people to know what the at least the title is of every practice. Where I might not give them all of the details, I don't want to um ruin the surprise of it, of the, you know, and I want them to know where things might feel edgy.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah, right, yeah, because I don't also because you've taken away the expectation too. Because if they are already predicting what will be done and then you don't do it, you know, or you don't do it in the way they expect it to be, it could be a disappointment when there should be able to be room for that flow.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Yeah, yeah, and and there's a bit of like if they have trauma, they need to have the trans enough transparency so that they can energetically feel into their yeses and noes. Right. And so it's like I so it's always this balance of like how much, what is too much, what is not enough. And really like uh doing um doing fuller retreat weekends, it's like I love to do interview processes with people before they come. So I get a heads up, hey, what kind of traumas do you have? What should I be aware of? So that if I think there's something on the schedule that might be um not necessarily problematic, but something that you should be aware of in advance. I can give more full explanation of, hey, this is what we're doing, this is the capacity of it, this is where your choices are, so that they have they can they can really feel like, yeah, I want to do that, or I want to sit in the corner and just be a silent observer, or I would I will need to be out of the room. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Yeah, that's actually, you know, um it's a different take on it, but it is important to know where everybody's boundaries are. Um, I know I tend to be more like I'm inviting them and pulling them in through and past their boundaries sometimes, but sometimes it's because we need that stretch and challenge, yeah, but not to the point of where it's it's created a trauma or a trigger or it's activated something in them, right? But just enough to say, you can, it's okay to say yes here, right? We are in a safe space to say yes here. And and so I think a lot of times when women feel that, they they do engage. You know, otherwise, some wallflowers they will they want to just be quiet, they just want to be the observer. But when you pull them in a little bit in that soft way, then they feel like, okay, I can do this, right? I can do just enough, and that opens them up for even more.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Right, exactly. And I think that's where having knowing your participants really helps, going, are you just a wallflower who's shy? Doesn't necessarily have any trauma, and you just need to be pulled forward versus the person who's um let like a lot of what I'm doing is it's more on the somatic where your body might be releasing sexual trauma or something else. And so I'm I'm very aware of like, okay, we're doing this. Maybe it's a self-massage practice, for example. How comfortable are you in the room, giving your feet a massage, giving your belly a massage, giving your arms a massage? Would you be feeling comfortable if someone took their top off? Would that make you like all of those things, like understanding boundaries and understanding the where um where their growth edges of going recognizing what where is the fear? And is this fear coming from something that came from your past that was traumatic? Or is it a cultural conditioning that you need to break through? Is it something that is a desire that you want to work through and work on those growth edges? Or is there something like someone touches me in a certain way, it's gonna re-traumatize me?

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Right? Like all I love, I I like the energy or the yeah, the energy behind um the interview process for sure. And also um bringing up cultural conditionings, religious conditionings. That was if we saw that a lot on this retreat. Was a lot of women coming from cultural backgrounds or even religious backgrounds where they're trying to open up to it, but they don't quite know where they stand. Um, we did have one that she comes from a very strong religious background, but she's opening up, and she was just like, there was a few things that I didn't I can't really, you know, grasp because she's afraid that she's like going against God or going against Jesus or whatever she was feeling, and having an open conversation with her to explain where we're coming from and how they are all a part of it, you know. And I was even trying to be fun with her and be like, imagine, you know, like Jesus and Buddha and Christian, all of them, they're all friends hanging out, like you know, kind of thing. And then they're all coming and helping us and and assisting us here. And and so she was like, Do you really do you think it's like that? And I go, Well, energetically, yeah, I do. Do I see them in physical form, all hanging out? Not necessarily, but energetically and consciously, I see that. And so then she was just like, Well, asking all these questions about how she can bridge from where she's opening up to to where she was raised and how she was raised. And it was, I think in the end, there was enough seeds planted for her to get curious with it, you know. But she definitely was still like, I gotta hold on to this. And I said, Well, you hold on to it as long as you need to, right? And if it's in your lifetime to open and release some of that, you will. And if not, that is okay too. You're doing your work.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Well, and I think I love that, right? There, it's like we're honoring exactly where you're R, where your belief systems are, what you're open to. Like there's a beauty in when a woman comes in, or if you're in a co-gendered retreat, whoever you are, if you're coming in and you're getting validated, you're getting validated in this is where I'm at in my process. This is who I am, this is my belief systems, these are my values. You're not trying to convince them into something else, you're just guiding them into is this who like recognizing like, are you, is this actually who you are? Are these your values? Or is this what you picked up culturally, religiously, institutionally? And is that something that you want, right? Yes, right there. It's clarifying, like the whole process you should feel leaving lighter, more clear, more curious about possibilities, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:04

About your possibilities, yeah. And where did your beliefs come from? Whatever belief you're talking about, where did it come from? Is it something you went and you learned and you picked up, or is it something that, yes, is a tradition that was put on you? It's interesting because, like for me, I can be a very traditional wife. When my husband comes home, I you know, I feed him, I care for him in certain ways, I pack his bags before he leaves, you know, for the week for work and all that stuff. But then during the week, it's a different, you know, it's different. Now, am I always like, where did that come from? Right? I watched my mom do it. It's something that was put on me traditionally and culturally, but it's actually something I enjoy. And it's because I want him to feel loved, I want him to know that I appreciate him when he's home and everything. Like, I want to take care of him in certain ways. Um, but I also recognize that it's something I witnessed because we took care of the women in my family, us girls, and my mom took care of my dad that way. You know, now my dad's not here to do that for, but when he was, I loved it. He'd come to my house, he'd be like, Hey, I heard you're having a pool table game, like party, you know, because I have a pool table. And he'd show up with his friends knowing it was a space he could come to, and it was an instant party just in his name, you know, and he was fun and he enjoyed that. And they I would cook for him and do all that, but it's very traditional. And um would I take that part away? I don't think I would, even though it is more traditional for a more modern woman, you know. But I am very much that as well. It's just I feel the balance of finding it within yourself, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Right, and I think it it goes to like you can see it where it came from, and you're making the choice today to live the life that you choose to live, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Because I like being taken care of too in a very traditional way, you know. I mean, we all like that, and I think there's there's important things to say of going back to some tradition and bringing that into your home life, your your ceremonies, all of it. And I think that's why women we have felt this disconnect for so long because it really is. It's like, who am I and where did this come from? And it's amazing because it's not like 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds, you know, it's like 40, 50, 60-year-old women that are trying to learn who they are today, you know, and they're in their older years going, I can't believe I left, you know, this many. But you know what they're doing? They're picking themselves up right then, and they're gonna go and live their life right now. Like go and do you. And it's it's just amazing to watch. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Yeah, powerful and the diversity that you can have. Like, I feel like this the retreat that I just Offered because it was in Austin and it was it wasn't my community. I didn't know exactly who I was walking, what I was walking into. And there was some um initial like months before fear of like, I don't, these aren't my people. Like, I don't know if like, you know, like I'm very used to like I have my people from my community come and join. And um to have a huge variety of not only age, but um marriage styles, like open relationship, queer, um uh religious backgrounds. Like we had a lot of variety in this group, and I absolutely enjoyed it. And to really be able to hear and witness everyone's struggles, being in that diversity. Like I think our we definitely had people who were probably in the early 30s, maybe late 20s, all the way up into their 50s. And I think I'm used to working with women in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, right? Like I would say that would be my my normal, right? I'm always I'm always got people at least 10 years older than me. And I would say the people that were really gravitated towards me, right? And to to also witness that we're all women and that we're all doing this work and we're all have this commonality of the the struggle, not not the the same challenges in a way, of going right, and so there was a lot of a lot of conversation on that, and I thought that it enhanced the group to have the diversity in it.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

No, I think that's great because it is because you have the elders, the wisdom of the elders in the group that can speak to the 20-year-olds, you know, the early 30-year-olds. Um, and it's important because the 20-year-olds they're only trying to heal 20 years versus 60. I know, right? And that's a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

And I'm like, I that's what I'm used to. I'm just like, give me the give me the the people who have held on to stuff for a really long time, right? Like I'm I'm there and ready for the deep dive of peeling layers and layers and layers back. And you work with these younger ones, and oftentimes they just don't have it. They're they're ready to live life now. They're and they're showing up for retreat and community in their early years. And it's like they're already making these choices, they're already making these decisions to say yes to themselves, yes to prioritize their self-care, yes to their spiritual growth. And I'm like, that's phenomenal. We didn't all have that privilege and opportunity to do so.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Yeah, right. No, it's beautiful.

Retreat Plans And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01 46:46

And I know that, you know, we are you and I are talking about, you know, we've had retreats in the past together, and I know we have some that we're talking about that's coming up um in the spring. And one of them is going to be here in my area that I'm looking forward to. But we're also talking about doing Austin again. So do you want to kind of talk about some of our plans that that are coming up?

SPEAKER_00 47:11

They're very much still in the works, but I think Chantel and I would love to be offering something in the Hemet, California area in October. Like we'd love to do a shamanic Rahey retreat in her area. And then this Austin location was phenomenal. I loved it. And it has the the grounds are perfect. They have a huge temple space to do your ceremonies in. There's cabins, there's bunk houses, there's an Airbnb house, there's a place to pull up your camper trailer. You know, they just have the amenities. And um right now it's like I went down to kind of scope things out. That was kind of one of the reasons. Like, okay, I'm gonna scope out the space, I'm gonna scope out like what the possibilities are. And right now, my partner and one of his colleagues, and I'll be joining them as assistant. We're doing an intro to Sacred Tantra retreat, um, MLK Day weekend in January. And then Chantel and I are looking at the calendar for possibilities to do a shamanic Reiki retreat there as well next spring. So things are definitely in the works. I don't have all the details yet, but they're definitely playing out in a very positive way. So I would say keep your eye out, keep like put your save of the dates in. I think if um October will probably be mid-October. We we know MLK weekend is is the weekend that we'll do for the tantra retreat. I'm really looking forward to that one in the fact that I really trust the facilitators are gonna have a lot of integration time and I'm gonna be kind of the I'm I'm hoping I'm foreseeing myself as like the integration facilitator, like seeing myself like taking care of people, like the guardian of the heart, where at where people are mixing up their emotions and things are coming up, and I get to be there to hold space for them in the in-betweens.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

And so that's a very important role, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Yeah, yeah, and energetically clearing the space and like working, all of that, all of that. So that's gonna be a really sweet one. And and you know, one of the ideas of getting down there was like, okay, what does the space need? Can we make this a regular thing?

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Because it it really in the airport and all that, that was close enough, yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

It was 30 minutes away, you know. Like we I Ubered it, you know, and so I think there's there's pieces I have spent a few years now trying to find a location that's close to an airport, that's got all the amenities I'm looking for, that we can bring in a cater and have space for them to cook, like all of these things. And I'm like, okay, I think we're I think this is it. So it's good, it's good. And I'm always open to hearing from our community of their favorite retreat spaces, where do they want to be? Um, if they've got tips of where they're there, these are located, you know, hit me up if you want to bring us to your location. You're listening from the East Coast and you want Chantel and I to go put on a retreat in North Carolina, you know, cool. Like, I'm down. So yeah, me too. Let's do it for sure. I think that's it. It's like you get to a point where it's like I could literally in an hour do 20 different workshops, and it's not hard, right? Like it's like these are things that we have done so many times, whether online or in person, that you we we receive the call and we can like easily go, what does your community need? You want to focus on energy and energy cords, you want to focus on chakras, you want to focus on the elements, you want to focus on fill in the blank, inner child work. Like we we could definitely call, like put together uh an itinerary, a proposal, and be like, what your community needs.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

So we are doing we've gone from like doing sweat lodges to yeah, sitting around the fire to letting in our our let our inner goddess come out. Like we've done, we've done the work, we've done the work, and and we bring it, we totally do, and um and it's just such a wonderful experience. And I have not had or done a retreat between us or even and myself where you feel there's a lack, it's like no, you feel so abundant, yes, and uh just yes, and so it is it's reaching out more to the community, and so if there are people that do want to call us and be like, hey, let's do this, let's put this together. Um, yes, we can get an agenda, we can put out an outline, we can say this is what we have to offer, and it is. Give us your intention and we will work with that. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

Exactly. So here's some more retreats.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Love it. Yes, yes, absolutely. And I am looking forward to you coming in and doing one here, even though those will be more of a day retreat, um, because the location is at my place of business and there won't be like sleepovers, but um, there's local, you know, hotels and all that for those who are traveling in. Um, a beautiful casino here that I would recommend. But doing some day retreats of just, you know, workshops and bringing in food and being able to like just lounge in a nice, beautiful space.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Exactly. Exactly. So give us your uh intentions, your ideas, your locations. We love that. And until next time, uh have a beautiful week. Let those whispers of wisdom keep cultivating within you and let us know how we can support. Thanks everyone for watching and listening. Bye, everyone. Have a good week. Thanks for tuning in to today's show, the Wisdom Rising Podcast, is sponsored by Moonrising Shamanic Institute. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting app and be the first to know when we release a new episode. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Moonrising Institute, or visit our website, Moonrising Institute.com. Once again, thanks for sharing space with us today. And until next time, may you awaken to the whispers of wisdom rising from within.